Lancaster PA Real Estate Blog

Jeff, thanks for the additional links and information. One of the Realtors in my office had an ICF new construction home. I was able to watch most of the above ground home. Was glad to hear that this huge home was guaranteed to have all utility costs less than $900.00 per year. I'm not sure what the audit came up with for the home, I'm sure there was some leway.

Gary, thanks for your comment.  ICFs are going to be a key new ingredient in foundation and wall construction once the word gets out about the actual cost/value long-term, in my opinion...

Thanks for the information Jeff. I am working with a builder using the ICF's who has followed in his father's footsteps. His father starting using ICF's and trying to make them a household word during the late 80's and early 90's in Michigan . Talk about guys ahead of the times!!! ICF's are truly amazing.

Good luck with New Holland Concrete and keep spreading the green word!

Buzz, thanks for your comments.  Try posting some pics of ICF's going in, so we can learn more and you can promote your builder!

Jeff, there will be some pictures and blogs on our project coming. Right now Mary Bigelow has a great blog on the Herkelrath Project in Onekama Michigan that we are involved in with Adam Bearup, Hybrid Homes. Take a look at her blog.

Thanks for the tip...

Thanks Jeff, Mary Bigelow checking in! I am working on a blogging project about Adam Bearup of Hybrid Homes who truly believes in ICF's. Adam has a terrific project in North-Western Michigan he is building as a tour home for the Michigan Energy Fair.

Aside from creating a healthy, efficient environment for the homeowner, Adam is a true believer in recycling all the waste from the jobsite. Honestly, I have never seen a more tidy home being built. My mother would be proud.

Thanks for your post about New Holland ICF's...I'll be looking forward to future posts!

 

YAY!!!! YEAH!  YES!!! 

3,000 cheers and 10,000 happy bows to Y'ALL!

This is the kind of conversation that enlightens and inspires greatness in all of us. PLEASE ad just a few photos. Do you have a digital camera Jeff? Buzz/..Mary already does this. I want to showcase your work..as per the Gold Star CHALLENGE...get this kind of information out to 30,000+ REALTORS who can benefit from your wisdom  and experience.

Jeff, Buzz and Mary~ 

Here's to you...[EDIT]This post, and the conversation it has generated ren=ninds why you won the ECO Gold Star

Here's an example of an article that makes me look forward to dropping in for a visit at Active Rain...and staying for a while...and the reason I subscribe to your BLOGS.****

JaneAnne,

Thanks for pushing us all along! We have Buzz in training and he is catching on well! First I'm teaching him how a keyboard works, next it will be a camera! How fun is that! You are truly an inspiration!

Mary, thanks for the links to Adam's project site.  Seems as if he's ahead of the curve and marketing himself well - great stuff!  I'm looking forward to more pics of his Michigan Energy Fair home as it progresses. 

I've posted a couple of shots of the Lancaster Career & Technology Center's green home using ICFs on Localism under Lancaster County/Mount Joy, which is where the school's project home is going up.  I'll post them here when I'm back in my office...

JaneAnne and Mary, thanks for the Gold Star!  I rather think that Tom Reilly and Adam Bearup deserve it more...can I invite Tom Reilly to AR as a supplier?  Just a thought...

You are very welcome Jeff! You are correct - Tom and Adam deserve the credit. It is also important for us to keep highlighting their efforts! You are doing your part! You are welcome for the links - Adam does a very good job chronicaling his work. Buzz and I will be taking a trip to Northern Michigan later this week to update Adam's project. Adam is ahead of the curve and he is moving along on this project very quickly. The Michigan Energy Fair is only a month away and Herkelrath project needs to be ready!

 

Seeing as how we are learning the keyboard the camera will come shortly with much help and encouragement from our partner Mary. We hope to have some new pictures this week, next week at the latest of the project in Onekama.

Sounds great!  Bring 'em on...

Let's get the rest  of the ECO-All-Stars in on this conversation...it's abut teamwork and enterprise...for sustainable communities...any suggestions?

I think there's more going on at the local level than even we think...we need to get our members to make a call to an area supplier and find out who's selling, for example, Reward Walls in their area.  Then they could do a phone interview about what business is like and post the conversation for all to read.  There's lots of green building products to choose from - just start with Google for green building in your city/county etc.  it'd be good research & exposure!

Jeff, I like that idea! and THIS is what is going on at my local level!  

You may ask -- why is a Mortgage Broker talking about builders and lumberyards? Ah, a future blog!

While these guys are putting forth such a tremendous effort to coordinate the homebuilding I am chronicaling...

I am also learning a new "trade". How fun to get so deeply involved in a project! My old boss used to say "Mary, you know way too much about that house." My new boss says, get involved and help these guys get the word out! Isn't that just the greatest! I love my job! 

Jeff -- delve in at the local level, they need your expertise and EXCITEMENT!!! not to mention your word of mouth advertising!

 

Thanks JaneAnne -- I agree, all the ECO-stars need to come out on this one! On all of our behalf --thank you for the gold star!

Mary, I like what you're saying.  It's been my experience that those small businesspeople laboring in the sustainable markets like solar, energy audits, new construction tech and the like are "in the background" rather than the "foreground".  It'd be fun to blog about them and let Google do the rest...

Absolutely Jeff. I think with gas prices climbing higher more of us boomers are remembering that during the energy crisis of the 70's we swore we would do something about it. Then the economy got fat and we forgot about it while we did other things.

Now as we face the crisis again, we wish we had kept our promises. It is not only the gas prices but our wastefulness as a country. With internet technology, google, and all the other tools at our disposal now we can make a difference. I applaud you for bringing this to light!

(super @ $3.95 in Michigan today -- of course, the holiday is coming! Lots of SUV's and Motor Homes on the road)

Our society is a reactive one. We react to the high gas prices and our rising costs of energy. I choose to be proactive and hope that as each new person learns of the ways to conserve energy, not just in building new homes, that their lightened impact on our precious unrenewable resources will make a difference.

Mary, sorry I missed your coment earlier - Thats a HIGH price for gas!  Eeks!

Adam - you are right to take the proactive road - the rub is in the marketing - drawing the average consumer closer to your vision with their hard-earned dollars.  Here is where I think Realtors can help.

OK~ this sure has proven to be a CONVERSATION WORTH JOINING.! I've been thinking that a good part of what we do as real estate professionals is research. Here we begin a conversation that opens doors and opens eyes. It can be both an enlightening and enlivening experience as you read through this conversation.

This conversation takes us to leading edge research. Certainly it is worthwhile reading. More to the point....it's worthwhile brining your information to the discussion. Add your .02 cents. .. 

THANKS Jeff, Buzz, Mary...and All

 

Jeff,

The average consumer is not that interested in what I do, yet. The average consumer is usually going to fall in line after they see projects being completed, most people understand that. There is a very distinct group of people in our state that are having homes built this way. What it is doing though is creating awareness among the average consumers and making them ask their builders or realtors 'what makes you green'. I have been told that I am one of a few builders that can broadcast the work we do in a way that keeps people's attention, and that is a big part of this entire green building push. The more we broadcast these techniques and the hard lines that we hold with our practices, the more it creates awarenes among others to not only build this way, but to protect themselves against builders who are calling themselves green but really are not.

I agree that realtors can help us connect with the right people, but it needs to be done for the right reasons. Money is definately a great motivator, but for me, sitting in the dark someday because we used up all our unrenewable resources motivates me more. I am excited to see blogs like this because it makes what we do worth it. The critics I have can be nasty as they try to sway me from my hardline about building to LEED-H certification. However, someone once told me that if you have critics, people are listening.

Thank you everyone for your interest and stay tuned to www.wmhybrid.com to see how the Show House for the 2007 Michigan Energy Fair is progressing.....

I forgot to wish everyone a happy and safe Memorial Day and remind everyone to thank a veteran and remember those who gave the ultimate sacrifice to allow us to do what we do.

JaneAnne - it'll be interesting to see what people come up with - do some internet searching and I think they'll be surprised who is already in their backyard!

"someone once told me that if you have critics, people are listening"

Good comment, Adam.  In my observations it seems that the LEED certification is problematic to explain to a consumer, while energy savings would be at the other end of the difficulty scale.  How do you present this as a "benefit" rather that a "feature", if you get my drift?

Jeff - are there any environmental downsides to the Reward system? Only recently when a company was applying for permits for an ethanol plant in the Tampa area did I realize that the water needed to manufacture ethanol is enormous! That's a big problem for our area.

Sharon,

I'd like to chime in here! You are so on the mark with your comment

"Only recently when a company was applying for permits for an ethanol plant in the Tampa area did I realize that the water needed to manufacture ethanol is enormous!"

I am just jumping into the Green Scene and am learning the trade-offs of what it costs in resources, scrap, by-products, transportation costs, etc. in regards to the points system. The other fault is that points can be gained for somethings as a trade off for others. LEED-H and EnergyStar are both great systems but each have their faults.

Arina brought to AR attention that LEED-H is in an open comment period for public comment through June 27, 2007. I believe comments like yours will help shape these organizations so they look at all aspects of "green" and "green washing" is minimized. 

 

Mary, thanks for bringing that point abour LEED to our attention!

This is something to think about and how to present the LEED certification process. It is a great place to start. Keep in mind that LEED is a voluntary rating system. Being a voluntary program sets the builder's using the certification apart from others in the marketplace. It's not an easy thing to accomplish so it highlights the extra efforts they will go through to provide a premium product.

Great discussion! Any one else have ideas?

Jeff - I think the comments need to be different, not the same one 200 times! Ha! LOL. Don't you just hate it when that happens?

To expand on Buzz's comment it is important to keep in mind the green building is not necessarily about the products as much as it is the process and the system that is developed. It is important to have a great team working together and to keep them all involved throughout the process. I was reading on the LEED site last night that contributions should be made by all members, even if it's not their area of expertise and that getting out of your comfort zone can lead to some great "outside the box" thinking.

This blog is a great example of that type of process at work.

It is great to see inovative ideas I haven't seen before, I will be looking into seeing if anyone is doing these types of construction here in Western Washington. Wish I had the resources to build a new energy efficient home, I'll be working on that too.

Mary, I was posting comments and it kept giving me an error - so I reposted it a few times.  Well, it got back at me!  I deleted the buggers.

 

Hi to Mary and Buzz - I've been out for awhile but here I am:)  Jeff, the more we as RE professionals read and understand about ICF's and other eco-friendly materials, the more comfortable we are talking about and promoting them.  I'm certainly trying to expand my horizons.

Glad you're back Ed! I would love to have you accompany me to Onekama and see first hand how well the teamwork works with Hybrid Homes. It is amazing to find someone who is so green to the heart and lives the philosophy. Just as with the ECO All-Stars group I am finding people who truly believe in the EcoFriendly are so willing to share of themselves and their knowledge.

Incidently, if you and Ben aren't busy the weekend of June 22 - 24 the Michigan Energy Fair is happening and will be "20 hour days among the knowedgeable and willing." as David Bahle says! I'm sure I can arrange some lodging!

You are on the forefront helping to blaze a trail - as we all come together we will no longer be a misplaced seedling trying to survive

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 Together we can come together and develop the greatness and majesty much like the rain forest and have a positive impact on our great earth. The diversity of our personalities, careers and knowledge will help make this happen!

(Tropical Greenhouse - Source: http://www.srl.caltech.edu/personnel/krubal/rainforest/Edit560s6/www/plants.html)

Ed - keep expanding those horizons!

Jeff- I have been out for what seems likd a very long time and almost missed this conversation. I am wondering how ICF might be different form concrete blocks which have been used for a long time for building homes in developing countries, stacked almost the way bricks are stacked.

In New Mexico, straw is being used increasingly in green residential construction. I often wonder if we would have enough of thews materials if, indeed, their use became widespread. There has been a shortage of concrete. Could we provide enough straw to build all the homes we need?

 

Hi Eloise - if I can comment here - concrete block is hollow, it can be insulated in a couple of ways but not one tenth as well as an ICF wall. ICF walls feature 2 1/2" of foam on the outside and 2 1/2" of foam on the inside which sandwiches  6 " of concrete and rerod.

A concrete block is 8" x 16" with three hollow cavities that can be insulated but very efficiently. If that is your wall it is transferring the cold right through the block. Concrete block is cost effective, it just doesn't have the ability to be insulated like an ICF wall is. Kind of like comparing a yugo to a Jag -

Hybrid Homes is using ICF for all outside walls on the total structure, not just the basement. This adds strength to the structure as well as insulating properties/energy efficiency  to the complete house.

This would be a great place for Adam to jump in and comment! We could use his additional expertise!

Thanks, Buzz for that reply.  Good discussion!

Don't forget to congratulate JaneAnne on her May honors as top moderator... 

Well said Buzz.

We do several things to limit the amounts of concrete that we use. First, we add fly ash to the mixture and sometimes up to 40% of the mixture is fly ash. Flay ash is whats left over from burning coal in coal powered power plants. Also, we add air entrainment which basically replaces some of the mixture with air.

ICFs are cost effective if the right people are using them. Concrete blocks allow frost and cold temperatures to pass through unstopped and is one of the main reasons for burst water pipes in cold climates. ICFs are as Buzz stated concrete sandwiched between two layers of expanded polystyrene which is the same material that you see in foam coolers or foam cups. Infact, the Dart coporation that makes those products lets us drop off our scrap foam to them to recyle. Yay Dart!

Goto my website if you need to learn more, www.wmhybrid.com. Otherwise, email me and I will call you..

 

To add to the conversation just a bit, the material used in manufacturing the majority of ICF's is a material called Expanded Polystyrene (EPS.)  This material is manufactured with no CFC's, HCFC's or formaldehyde.  When it burns, it gives off less toxins than white pine wood.  You are exposed to more toxins sitting next to a camp fire than you are a burning pile of scrap ICF's.  It is completely different than extruded polystyrene (XPS,) which is the board-type insulation that is manufactured in 4 x 8 sheets.  This insulation does have a higher R-value per inch, but it is very toxic when it burns due to the chemicals used in the extrusion process.

 Additionally, the ties used to create the ICF panels are made from recycled plastic.  Combined with using "green" concrete (higher fly ash content, etc.,) you have a very environmentally-friendly product.  However, as has been noted earlier in this thread, "green" is more of a process than any particular product and it incorporates numerous systems designed to work in synergy with one another to minimize environmental impact.

As for ICF's vs. block, the difference is significant, although the true benefit of ICF's is realized in above-grade construction.  Below-grade, all wall systems utilize the earth's natural insulation which is why most basements are cooler than the balance of the home.  The true difference between ICF's and block is structural.  ICF's offer a monolithic, cast-in-place wall that is insulated to an R-32 average.  Rebar is used throughout the wall, increasing the overall strength.  Also, because you aren't stripping the forms, as is typical for poured wall foundations, the concrete cures continuously.  After 1 year, we are finding that a 3000 PSI mix design is curing at nearly 6000 PSI.  As a result, more and more residential ICF foundation work is completed using a 6" core rather than your typical 8" or 10" block or poured wall.

With block walls, every mortar joint is a potential leak point.  Unless grout is used to fill the voids, block walls are not monolithic.  Additionally, the process to furr out and insulate a block wall is sequential (lay the block, THEN attach furring strips, THEN insulate,) where as an ICF wall completes all 3 steps at once. 

 I could go on an on with details suitable for insomniacs, but I'll leave it at that.  Suffice it to say that ICF construction does contribute to building "green," and we are seeing a consistent growth in interest from the general public.  My suspicions are that it will continue.  To Adam's point, ICF's are not the cheapest way to build a wall, but they can be cost-effective if the right person is using them.  They are not for everyone, but outside of oxygen, what is?       

Thanks Tom for the detailed information. You certainly have added good content to this conversation.

" "green" is more of a process than any particular product and it incorporates numerous systems designed to work in synergy with one another to minimize environmental impact." I think this the key with the "green" build. I am seeing first hand that each component and "human" element is like putting together a recipe. Leave out the sugar or salt and your tasty treat becomes something completely different. Professionals like yourself are so critical in helping to educate consumers as well as other professionals to the benefits. Thanks for your input!

Everyone~

Here's a conversation that opens doors and new perspectives! This conversation takes you to the  edge and stretches your outlook!

ADD your information to the discussion. ...whee else could your .02 cents be so valuable?? Here we have an opportunity to demonstrate as a group the weaving ofa powerful conversation that informs and creates the kind of energy that makes a difference for real estate professionals and their clients.

THANKS to Jeff, Mary and Buzz for starting the conversation...

***Sustainable AR-Folk Subscribe to BLOGS, Comment and Bring Energy to Each Post They Read!"

Good Job Keeping this Going JaneAnne --

I met with my Hybrid Builder, Adam,  yesterday - Many of the ICF's are easier for the crew to assemble and the cement crew to pour than others - all ICF's are not made the same from my understanding. Adam saved several thousands of dollars labor because his "legos for big boys" as Gary Smith so affectionately calls them -- went together so easily.

I'm not trying to pit one brand against another - just raising the point to see the forest, through the trees, as I have heard said (affectionately, no doubt) so many times by those in the construction industry!

Anyone else out there have comments or suggestions????

 

 

Mary,

Each crew is going to like the brand that works best for them. The brand we use does save us gobs of time and limits the chances for blow outs.

This is piggy backing off of the LEED-H conversation that was up the post a little way.

LEED-H is a benefit. It will not appeal to the average buyer, but for those passionate about the environment it will. Any other green certifications out there besides LEED-H were formed by Home Builders Associations or groups from the specific industries that they represent. This poses a problem. You end up with a certification that has no credibility which in turn does not equal a benefit. If youwant to learn more on my stance so I do not have to mention names here, just email me.

LEED-H benefits not only the environment, but the homeowner and builder as well. It gives the builder a guideline or specific track to follow which helps the homeowner to find a builder that is versed in new techniques and in synch with what is trying to be accomplished. I like to refer to LEED-H as 'by the people for the people." All others are by the builder for the builder or plug in the industry after the word by.

Energy Star is outdated but still weighs very heavy in LEED-H.

Here is a tid-bit from what I do to make the cost of LEED-H worth it. Goto this link and read what I wrote: http://www.wmhybrid.com/hybrid_journal_by_adam_bearu.htm

You will read what I wrote on using Hybrid Projects to get better prices on items going onto these homes. The cost of LEED-H is what gets thrown out there the most. It costs about $1,500 to certify a house. If a builder has any marketing skills what so ever, they will find ways to use their high profile projects to offset that cost like I did. We were given a number of deals on out projected LEED-H Platinum home in Onekama, including 4 Toto dual flush toilets. That was worth more than the cost of LEED-H, now that is a benefit!!!

Comment by Loretta Buckner, Broker in Tampa Bay Florida:

I think as a profession, we also should all be aware of the impact of our automobiles--so very necessary to our business--on our environment.  I've been researching alternatives that can look nice with the least impact: 

first choice (yikes!  look at that price tag!):  Tesla  (oh, yeah...)

ok, more readily attainable: something bio-diesel convertible

anybody know of any sporty diesels?  convertible rabbit, mebbe?

 

 

copied from CHALLENGE post into this conversation by...

I had a client a few years ago who did something like this.  It was the first time I had heard of this option.  I like the cost benefit analysis -- it helps people understand how they will save money in the long run - and at the same time protect the environment. 

Folks, I've revised and updated post to make it more interactive and interesting.  Hope you enjoy the read...

I had a GREAT day out at the Career & Technology Center homesite today (thanks Kim Patrick).  Tom Reilly was there talking about  the ICFs used in the home, so I posted some pics here (yes, one of me - shameless eh?).  There were some other great innovators who I'll be posting about this afternoon.  Thanks to all who attended!  Hey, I was even on TV...eeks.

 

I love an outside  of the box concept.

 I just watched a series about "retired" steel cargo containers being used as homes. I will have to write a post for ya. Thanks for sharing this with us Jeff as  we all know mother nature is smiling that we can "choose to not use" . (ps. I made that up- it is my motto!  i try to stop myself to thing long enough "is this really necessary" )

ps- love Lancaster. Lived in Lewisburg (Bucknell) 4 yrs. beautiful BUT hated snow! (from Florida, go figure!)

Jeff, it's nice to see this subject finally gaining some traction since you first posted. Like all "newer" technology it takes some time for leaders to notice.

BTW, are these homes marketed under the EnergyStar certification or has certification been applied for?

Thanks, Gary - yes, I know that Energy Star certification is a foundational goal for the project.  I'm sure they will certainly be marketed under that.

 

 This conversation is stimulating and very eye-opening. I would be curious however, how much of this long term cost and energy saving technology is being directed towards "Affordable Housing".

It would appear that the savings on Green Housing along with Hybrid Cars, are being passed on to those who need them the least.

Arguably the improvement to the Environment is shared...but the overall day to day savings benefits(heating,gas mileage etc.) Are only available to those select few who can afford to buy them !

I imagine this would be a great protection in Hurricane and Tornado prone areas.

Have the Insurance Companies jumped on the bandwagon yet by giving reductions for homes built with these materials?

Ginger

 

In response to Joan's post, the company I work for and the product I represent are heavily involved with Habitat for Humanity.  We donated the materials for one job and are working on a group of homes for a chapter that is purchasing the materials at a reduced cost.  The manufacturer provides us with additional relief and we reduce our margins to basically cover costs.

 In addition, I make it a point to be onsite to assist the volunteers in putting the "big boy lego's" together.  We also made a significant donation at the Mount Joy project Jeff mentioned in this thread.  Any effort to promote "green" building is a step in the right direction and when we can make these technologies accessible to the Affordable Housing sector, it's a win-win for everyone.

In response to the Sala comment, insurance companies are giving discounts (up to 50% in some cases,) for ICF-built homes.  The fire-ratings of these homes, when built to the roofline, are tremendous.  ICF walls have been tested to withstand winds in excess of 200 mph.  Blast testing on ICF walls was conducted at Quantico and they were able to get 100 lbs of TNT to within 10 ft. of the wall.  While the foam was obliterated, the structural integrity of the wall was not affected.

I do have an affordability analysis comparing an ICF home with a poured wall/2 x 6 frame home.  It compares up-front costs, montly energy usage and savings and also includes insurance premium comparisons.  Anyone interested in seeing a copy can email me at treilly@constructionsupplycenters.com and I'll be happy to shoot you a copy.

 Tom

Thanks Tom! I'm glad Sala asked about the insurance discounts - I'm glad they are stepping on board and responding. Your company is to be commended for the contributions to Habitat! Keep up the good work and thanks for being active in this discussion. Together we can get the word out about alternative building products!

Jeff, Excellent post with excellent converstation! I didn't see anyone answer your question about inviting Tom to AR as a supplier. (It may be the lack of coffee and early morning hour) Tom could really add to AR with his information, I think Adam could to. If you haven't invited them yet, I think you should.
Anyone else have thoughts on this?

Lysa, yep I have been after Tom to join our merry band.  He claims it's in his datebook...haven't talked to Adam - Mary, is that your area?

Everyone - great comments and information.  I'm really impressed with the insurance ramifications of ICFs.  Perhaps we can get some input from anyone who has experience with insuring a "green" built home - what are the advantages there generally-speaking?

I am meeting with an insurance rep this week and will pose the question and extend an invite.

As for Adam Bearup, I will remind him after the Energy Fair that we are here and waiting for his input! I am hoping he will have more time to join and contribute to this community! I have a few others in mind that will have awesome input. Currently, I know they are consumed with getting this project ready (Michigan Energy Fair) and have limited internet access on the job site!

They are all very impressed with our networking organization and have many times extended thanks to all of us for raising awareness!

Thanks Lysa for being on the prowl for new contributors.

Thanks ECO-AllStars for all the help getting our word out! We ARE having a great impact!

Jeff - I was just refreshing through this post -

It looks like in the last picture you are standing in an ICF surrounded room. Am I right? If so, did you notice, like I did, the superb sound quality in the room?

Jeff, I had the opportunity to see a LEED home and it was amazing. There is NO comparison to Energy Star.  The builder is focusing his efforts on Residential building as opposed to commercial and we both agree that explaining to the consumer what LEED is would be an overwheling task. 

There should definitely be more in the news about it.  It's healthier, quieter, cleaner....I could keep going but I won't. :)  Also, You would never know by looking at the homes.  LEED homes can be just as beautiful as any other.

This was a great post.  Thanks for sharing it with us!

You're welcome, It seems they both could add a lot to our online community, as they are already adding to the real world communities in their area.

From where I sit, it seems they enjoyed getting in on this converstation. Have you told them the about the other benefits of AR? :)

Lysa, Adam and his associates are so excited about AR and what we are doing. Adam has shared how hits to his website have recently increased and he is sure it is correlated to the AR community. He'll be on board soon! I'm excited about that because he has so much knowledge, and like other eco-friendly people, he is so willing to share.

Stephanie - you are right about LEED being so much further than Energy Star. What I love about LEED is that it is by the consumer, for the consumer. As a voluntary program it also highlights which builders are true to their commitment. :)

OK...Maybe a list of certification requirements might be a good thing to put on the table about now...Here's the list from NC Healthy Built Homes! Tell me how you think it compares to LEED certification...

it's terrific that the Insurance Industry is behind this concept with a 50 % discount. Are they marketing heavily to Hurricane prone areas?

Ginger

Hi JaneAnne,

LEED for Homes 
Here's the link for LEED for Homes. They have a pilot program running which they are actively tweaking. Thanks for your link to NC Healthy Built Homes - I will take some time to look through them both and compare/contrast. After a quick glance at NC Healty Built Homes it looks like it encompasses many of the same qualifiers.

Thanks for the info! 

Mary, you are right!  The sound quality in the ICF basement I was was spectacular.  I thought of a home theatre application instantly...

 

Mary/Janeanne - the certification materials can be mind-boggling to try to sort through.  A good place to start is the table of contents - simple!  I like to take one section at a time and try to digest that before moving on.

I'm looking forward to our annual building industry association "parade of homes" this coming weekend - we have a 100% ICF home that Tom sold to Garman Builders.  They named it the "Reilly" after him!  Hah!

 

Ginger & Roger - I agree 100% - the insurance industry is usually looking to raise our rates - it's nice to see clear opportunities to make them GO DOWN!

That's interesting. I didn't think about it affecting insurance.  Between ICF and other Recycled Insulators, solar lighting i.e. solar tubes, tankless water heaters, etc. you would think that it should.  Reduction in mold and mildew occurences, more fire resistance, metal and ceramic roofing would reduce chances of hail damage and wind damage.  Makes sense to me.

Jeff - post some pix of the completed "Reilly" -- How cool is that!! An Irish name like Tom's makes me think green to begin with and top it off with green building! I guess Tom was born for this line of work! Great suggestion on sorting...thanks!

I'm in agreement with the thoughts on the insurance industry - if they are not currently doing this they need to be hounded and lobbyed to make changes.

OK Everyone.......I am wondering not about certification, not about insurance...but about FINANCING...I think Bill Westel did a post on this awhile back..Bill..are you around?? [EDIT..nope it was James Holmes  New Resources to Fund Green Built Real Estate Projects  

Anyone else care to give us a heads-up on green building and financing?

How about the "Bigelow" model? The "Narrin"? 

 

Oops JaneAnne!!! That is my neck of the woods although I would love to compare notes with Bill. Since you asked.....(highlights of a future blog!!!)

I am after lenders to offer more than they currently are. What they are doing now is great, but I would like to do even better.

Among my products is a tremendous Construction - Perm Loan (CP Loan). I am able to finance based on finished appraised product rather than acquisition cost. This makes a huge difference in terms for the homeowner.

The CP Loan is a one time close which saves the homeowner closing costs. Additionally, the land can be paid for at close and a deposit to the builder (up to 10%) within 10 days. Realtors are also paid at the initial closing which is HUGE!!! There is no land seasoning required if the land changes hands at the CP Loan Closing -- also huge!

The way most of the one time CP loans work is that they are interest - only through the construction period,  the interest only is based only on the current draws. As the project progresses, the interest only payments will increase proportionally to the draws. It makes sense that they will be small at the beginning of the project and larger towards the end.

On a "normal" project the lender plans for 3 - 5 draws, depending on the value of the home. With Adam's Hybrid Homes we will be working on a customized draw schedule that may include more frequent/greater amount of draws. We are going to tailor the program to his needs as Adam likes to save the homeowner money by paying the vendors/suppliers quickly. There are normally some discounts for paying sooner than net 30. Rather than pocketing the money a conscientious builder (like Adam) will reflect the savings back to the homeowner.That Rocks!

It works! I have heard Elmer's drops everything to pour for Adam, even something as small as the windmill pad, and then he gets calls from suppliers saying - Hey, we offer you net 30, why do you pay so early!!! 

By basing the loan amount on appraised value rather than acquisition cost there is money for cost overruns. Lets say the homeowner wants to upgrade countertops -- the money will be there. Any funds not used will be modified in a "refi" type transaction following project completion and occupancy permit to reflect what was actually used in the project. Also - homeowner's do not have to prequal for an end loan. I am working with a gentleman now who had some issues with his job throughout construction, had some consumer lates, credit scores dropped, and is now having a hard time qualifying for the banks "end loan". With my product that would not be an issue.

Also, builder's are not stuck with a home because the homeowner didn't have enough money to come to the table after overruns that they lost track of -- nearly everyone wants to do bigger and better when building a home and they never want to work within "budget".. 

Benefits to the consumer of my CP Loan (in additon to the aforementioned):

One closing - saves time and money

Interest rate can be locked so if rates go up, they are locked at a lower rate. If rates drop (unlikely these days) they can take advantage of the rate drop.

Realtors are paid at close.

Builder does not need to disclose financials, have proof of assets, have reserves, etc --  

Homeowner can keep their money in their investment product making 10%+ and pay I/O on the draws -- they make money while they are building and normally come to the table with little if no money. 

If builder owns the land, the builder can be paid for that at close. They walk away from the table with money before they even break ground. Now that is different!

I hope this answers some of your questions -- stay tuned for more in a future blog! Can I offer a 1/8 point discount? You betcha! Just mention you read it on Active Rain!!!  

Shameless plug !! I offer loans outside of Michigan!!! and I will take great care of your project!!! I'll check with the boss - we have just transitioned and I believe we can offer products in 42 states! I have been waiting to announce that! Thanks JaneAnne for asking!!!

Mary, will this work on Jumbo Loans?  I have a builder that is interested in knowing about EEM's for Jumbo's.  If so I will forward your comment to him.

Mary, that is a great program you've got going there!  Can you share who the investor is that partners with you so we can connect with them in our state?  Or do you cover PA in the 42 states?

Thanks Stephanie - yes, Energy Efficient Mortgages (EEM's) are available on Jumbos. Basically the EEM part stretches the borrower's DTI to allow them to qualify for higher loan amounts. The CP Loans I offer can be done on Jumbos. I would love to speak with your builder!

Hi Jeff - Our company just made this switch and I'm checking now to see which states I can cover. I should have an answer by the end of the day! Thanks for asking! If I can't take care of you I will certainly get you hooked up with someone who can!

Mary, the next question is can you do loans in Texas? 

Mary~ 

You have given us an entire post on Green Financing...This conversation is veritably  "blooming" with good INFO!

I would like to know more about landscaping that is efficient.  Proper drainage without having to utilize sprinklers, etc.  Should that be covered in a different post?  :) 

Mary, I still would like to know if you cover Texas.  I forwarded your comment to the builder.

Stephanie - sorry for the delay, I have been confirming information. I thought it was 42 states, it is only 15. Pennsylvania and Texas are both a go - Texas I can only do first mortgages, not seconds yet. Yippie!

JaneAnne - isn't that funny! I get on a roll and can't shut up!!! I'm glad you found the information useful.

Stephanie - who is the ecologist who just joined all-stars? His name escapes me right now but he would have good information on efficient landscaping. I also will be posting on a meeting I had yesterday with the company that supplied the Live Roofs for Metro Hospital in Grand Rapids.

Make it a great day!

Mary~ 

I know the Ecologist. I know the Ecologist!!!

Kevin Caldwell (lucille13) - Marshall, NC - Score: 1689

Ecological Inventory, Conservation Planning, Land Stewardship & Habitat Management, Wetland Delineation / Permitting and T&E Assessments, Ecological Community Design. Often Referred to REALTOR clients.

He's my 6'7" buddy and fellow bird lover.  I just interviewed him for my monthly column "Green Roots" in the New Life Journal...the subject...LANDSCAPES...

Let's give me a few emails and see if we can get him in from the woods!

Thanks JaneAnne - I knew you would jump in!!! I had to get out of the office quickly and couldn't pull his name out of my hat!!! Thanks for checking back!!!

I will certainly send you an email to forward on! He has so much to share he needs to be a part of this!!!

Thanks for keeping up with us!!! To your success!

M

Everyone~ 

Mary has invited a new member to the ECO Group... ERIC..welcome..

Eric just pointed us in the direction of the
Not So Big House...and this quote that may be another jumping off point for our JUNE CONVERSATION

"The qualities we long for have everything to do with taking time, building for the long term, crafting and paying attention to who we are, what we care about, and how we affect our world. The Not So Big House celebrates the beauty of daily life. With minimum means, it makes the act of living an art. It restores the soul to the structure."

--from The Not So Big House by Sarah Susanka

Nice article Jeff.  As Asheville NC has a such a greenbuilding culture exploding, its nice to read about it in Michigan and elsewhere too and it is truly fundamental to eco-realtors, their clients, and energy consumption which you should all know by now is the THE SINGLE disfiguring, earth-consuming action humans are now engaged in.  #1.  Thus, the more we change, reduce and curb that, the less we will scar this planet. 

On a local level and for your areas, I'd suggest sniffing out your local ecologists & biologists and put them on your buyers.  Its great to build a green-home but since we have to excavate, build drives, etc, we're often damaging our land in ways we don't know.  Get some good biologists out there, even for a day or two and you then open the toolchest on how to tweak a design to avoid / minimize impacts, ensure you're not smashing the only rare plants or oldest, high quality areas on your site, and depending on the site and your interest...save the high quality landscape quality species you won't find in most nurseries. 

janeAnne, Mary & Stephanie - I can't speak to native plantings in Michigan, so Mary - you should contact your state Natural Heritage Program for suggested native plants for your region (varies wildly even within your state), and / or a botanist who can look at sites there before the excavation begins.  But as for native plantings - its complex and depends on your soil types, annual rainfall, what region you're in, whats happend to your site, etc...email me if you want to discuss more. You can also google native plants and maintenance for your area. 

I want to hear more about "new life journal", JaneAnne.  Sounds intriguing.  

Thanks for the kudos, Kevin.  Great to hear that Asheville has an exploding green building culture.

Your point about including biologists and ecologists is well taken.  I tried compiling a contact list over a year ago, by researching local schools and extensions.  I mailed some pieces out early but the response was zero so I went to online marketing instead.  Things have changed a lot in the last 18 months, though...

How about this idea:  I did some early research into starting a green building company this past winter and spring, but the startup financing (among other challenges) has put me off.  I was hoping to get the first green home up in our area, but it turns out that Tom Reilly had other ideas...I'm not jealous, really!  Anyway, my thoughts have turned from going out a trying to build them (which my skill set does not support) to creating an advocacy and support firm for mainstream builders to tap into for advice and promotion when (not if) they embrace more "green" practices.  My marketing and people skills background seems to support this business model, and it would be a decent springboard for my RE practice.

I'd have to formalize my green expertise somehow and do the legwork to form an INC or LLC, but the startup costs would seem to be mostly intellectual in nature.  Last thought - I could then truly capitalize on my relationship with other sustainable pros in diff. parts of the world (that'd be you, FYI).

Thoughts on my idea? 

 

 

 

Jeff~
Kevin is out in the woods. I'm sure he'll get back with you on this...

But, in the meantime,  I am really attracted to the idea of a consultant network!

Funny JaneAnne, but I know it's true, and there is not much internet access in the woods! I think our "got wood" friend Buzz has also been hanging out in the woods these days -- that, and getting final supplies for the showcase home ready! Isn't it funny sometimes how life just happens?

Thanks to you, one of the first things I wanted to do today when I returned to "civilization" was check in with my ECO All-Stars to see what I've missed! Thanks for starting such a cutting edge group! 

Thanks for sharing on this product and home building system.  I'll do some checking to see where it is deployed here in the Pacific Northwest.

 John Slocum

Thanks, Alexander for the kudos.  Try checking at rewardwalls.com first - maybe there will be a distributor near you!

A "consultant network", eh JaneAnne? Interesting thought.  I was just commenting to Stephanie this morning that we need to fine-tune the marketing to get the word out better.  Perhaps a network of advocates (who happen to include real estate agents) who promote each other in their respective states/regions, with a common website to contribute to and send interested parties.  That way we add each others knowledge together, learn and market too. Hmm.

I vote Heck ya to that one!  Integrate a blog into it ans see if we can't people from all corners of the GREEN industry to be a part of it.  Sounds like an idea for our July conversation....

Good ideas on the consultant network! I like it. I am also all for developing this idea throughout July!

Let's get some input from the rest of our Group... I'm going to invite a few other folks to join this conversation...how about-YOU?

I don't want us to lose sight of this network idea - July's almost here!

I like the network idea too. Count me in in whatever form it takes.

OK! I get to be comment 100!

The ECO-All-Star CHALLENGE FOR JUNE is to keep this conversation going and of interest to our group and to climb to 200 comments that are worth reading. 

How are we doing? I am looking at the comments so far. it feels like a superb, month-long Jam Session with some folks who inspire, educate and intrigue others.  How about the other 215 members of the ECO-All-Stars chiming in on the "chorus' ??

 

I am loving this Green Movement! I realize many of us feel it something that has been around for years...I am here to tell you that there are so many people  just grasping the basics of environmentalism. Gone are the days of being the minority- it is a trend that is gaining momentum daily. This is actually the first time I have credited the media IN A LONG TIME- thanks for the publicity TV land and way to go with keeping this converstaion alive !!

Mary, janeAnne- consultants? Fanastic idea and perfect venue for you two.

 

 

 

Real Estate professionals are in a great position to promote green building and/or retro-fitting.  Keep up the mission.

We've been alternative fanatics at our house for along time.  I think this is just good stewardship.  When DH was building houses, he was always advising the people how to orient their house for passive (free) solar benefits -- warm in winter and cool in summer. 

American's need something to "live" for; practical, applicable environmental missions instead of environmental self-worship!

JudyAnn!!!!!!!!!!!! WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This statement knocked my socks off... "American's need something to "live" for; practical, applicable environmental missions instead of environmental self-worship!"

I realize that I will now have to sit outside and watch the sun set over the mountains and ponder these words. To me, they are a mixture of truth and lyricism...and representative of our "energy" here at the ECO-All-Stars!

 

 

Jeff, This is a good explanation of ICF and the photos and links make it really interesting reading. Thanks for the update on the building of the rancher in Lancaster, Pa.  Wonder if anyone in the Baltimore area is using ICF.

Jeff, can you tell us some more about the Affordability Analysis?  That sounds interesting.

I want to read more about the affordability analysis, too!

Margaret - try calling Tom Reilly at 717-286-7165.  He'll know about that.

I am going to get our resident ICF expert online to discuss the affordability analysis, FYI.

Just back from the Energy Fair and Wow! It's been a great week and I could spend the next three months writing! Great things are coming! I talked with professionals from different parts of the industry this weekend and we will be developing some plans. I am anxious to see what input we can get on this blog. I can't wait for the affordability analysis discussion!

  

 

Margaret, I do work with a few ICF installers in the Baltimore market.  We are looking at some waterfront redevelopment projects (townhomes/condo's,) but the bulk of the work in that region is north and west of the city.  Feel free to touch base if you'd like more info.

With regard to the "Affordability Analysis," we took national average costs of 2 x 6 framing/poured-in-place foundation and compared it with full ICF construction costs.  ICF manufacturers will tell you ICF's cost 3-5% more than traditional construction, but I tell folks it's more like 5-10% and be happy when it comes in at 7%. 

The analysis takes this cost difference and shows how it affects down payment and monthly mortgage payment.  We then show a typical savings on homeowner's insurance and an average savings on monthly utilities.  From this, we can calculate a break-even point in terms of when the ICF benefits start paying the homeowner back.  The analysis assumes energy costs as constant rather than escalating.

Mary, I sent you a copy.  What are/were your thoughts?  Anyone else want a copy?  Email me at treilly@constructionsupplycenters.com.  If you get blocked (our server auto-blocks yahoo, hotmail domains, etc.,) call me at 717.354.1057 and I'll get your email address cleared internally.

Hi Tom! Your Affordability Analysis came in just as I was leaving for the Energy Fair Week and I didn't have time to review it well before I left. I just refreshed myself and I like what you have come up with. I think this is the key to educating homeowners that if they front load the costs the difference is NOT that great and their savings over the life of the home make it a very wise decision. I will pass on some further ideas over the next few weeks. Right now I'm trying to take in and assimilate everything I worked on this weekend!!!

Reward Wall Systems had their reps at the Michigan Energy Fair . Great bunch!

 

Hey Y'ALL..who volunteers to summarize this conversation ..??

JaneAnne, looks like you have loads of people jumping in. :)  I can do it if you still need someone.

I will have to pass - I need to run and attend to my pregnant wife!  Today is the due date...

Jeff - how exciting! 

JaneAnne, I think it would be great to have a couple of different perspectives on the summary. If Stephanie will volunteer, I will also! 

Wow! What great minds and intelligent people we have participating in this Active Rain Group, the ECO All-Stars!! I am simply amazed by all the knowledge. I actually printed this out - may have done away with a tree (24 pages) but it was great to sit on my deck and read through it all. I will keep this in my notebook for reference material!

My summary?

The title of this blog says so much. The blog HAS developed into an active conversation and excellent exchange of ideas between various professionals in the Real Estate/Construction industry. It is focused on new technology in the industry and what can be done to make our lives healthier, resulting in a better world.

I find it truly demonstrates that as professionals we have the ability 1. to learn about new technology 2. disseminate information to consumers and other professionals 3. engage in stimulating conversation through this beast we call the "net"

As a community of individuals who care about our earth we have been able to share what is happening in our "neck of the woods", what is working and ideas to not only help it work in other parts of the country but how to educate consumers and show the benefits. Very important!

Through this conversatioin we have identified several important issues/concerns and benefits - we have merged our thoughts. We have discussed various financial aspects - insurance, up front costs, longevity, mortgages, affordability... We have discussed health benefits. We have discussed the technology and physics behind the ICF's. Holy Toledo! What a well rounded conversation!!! It has been filled with educational points and has developed into a "mini" seminar with tiny bits of information, a little at a time, which has made it easier to digest!

I love that there has been no malace or competition -- just an open, sharing of ideas -- a brainstorming -- a "mastermind" group. Very Successful! especially considering most of us have never met. This is truly what the Active Rain Community is all about!

A GREAT READ!! 

To your Success!!! 

 

Jeff and janeAnne: In lieu of wasting a tree to print all this information, I have bookmarked it for future re-reading. In the meantime, I marvel at the efficiency of human ingenuity.

Jeff (and Mary) - now that I've gotten to see the Hybrid Home first hand, it certainly gives all of this ICF talk a whole new perspective.   The sound quality was amazing.  And the fact of the low variance in temperature makes it worth its weight in gold!  I'm ready to build!!!

Did I mention I have this great designer and builder I can hook you up with !!! HA.....

Weight in GOLD - it is gold when you consider the price of utilities (heat and air alone). Jeff I have also printed all the wonderful idears here to share with all my customers at closing - Is the baby here yet?

Thanks so much for sharing all your ingeniuity and the "green" house with us.

I'm about to do a summary, but I have another question. 

Using ICF's, we now know it is hollow in the center, but how does the weight compare?  The reason I ask is how much does the slab need to be beefed up in engineering?  How many additional piers traditionally needed vs. using ICF's.

Thanks all for keeping this conversation going strong!  Sorry I can't be more involved but I've got this baby thing to take care of...:)  Thanks for all the emails, comments of support!  See my latest blog post for some detail as to where we are right now...

Wow What a large amount of great information!

I have read and reread and I think I have it:

the cost effective, enviromentally friendly and health conscience way is "Green House"

With discussions like this, the Green Way of Life will be the only way of life soon. Thanks for sharing 

 

Ok, here is my summary.

In the world of GREEN building, there are now more options for the consumer.  The post started by talking about ICF's (Insulated Concrete Form's a.k.a. Big Boy Lego's) and how they are great for energy efficiency and contain less toxins than white pine.  It appears that this product is being used in many places in the nation. 

As the conversation grew we opened it up to other GREEN products and programs such as LEED or other state GREEN programs for building.  On top of that, it was discovered that Insurance Companies are stating to give discounts on these homes for multiple reasons.  One excellent example was that ICF's have been tested up to 200 mph winds. Sounds like a MUCH needed product along the Gulf Coast.

Consumers are also finding out about Energy Efficient Mortgage's.  It is a way for a buyer to qualify for more home when it takes into consideration the reduced utility costs.

Kevin chimed in and talked a little about the importance of native landscaping.  It is important to have a local specialist for this area.  Hopefully more will join us!  Kevin, welcome!

In the middle of all of this we discussed the importance of talking to consumers and making them aware of the options available.  There does seem to be growing interest from consumers already.

There are still some topics out there in the field so feel free to chime in. 

Oh, the topic of the "consultant network" as maybe being our July conversation...is that still in play?  :)  I think it's a great idea!  I agree with Mary how this month we brainstormed together.  We have come together as a group of people with the same cause and want the same outcome and are willing to learn from each other.  We have a special group here and I think we should maximize that.

Now, I believe there are about 80 more comments needed here.  :)

Stephanie, GREAT summary. I knew that more than one summary would help with this awesome conversation we have had. There are so many topics out there, as I witnessed at the Michigan Energy Fair this past weekend.

 You say,  We have a special group here and I think we should maximize that. I agree with you. I DO like the idea of the "consultant network" and would like to develop that idea more for July. Just think what a great array of ideas we will uncover!

Sounds like Jeff is in the middle of loving his wife and increasing his family size! (Interestly enough, Adams wife Heidi is a labor and delivery nurse!) That is great! In lieu of his absense, I have asked Eric and Adam to try and answer your "weight" question. I do know that they have to brace the ICF's while curing, I believe the process is 14 days....but I want the experts to chime in because I want to learn more and not give misinformation.

 Eric, Adam??? I will also zip a quick email to Jake from R-value to see if he will join our group! Only 79 more to go and a short time to do it in!

ok, 78 to go.  Thanks for getting them over here to keep it moving.  R-Value would be a GREAT addition..

Yes, I just emailed Jake -- lets see if he is an early morning riser or a late night person like myself! Buzz from Standale should also be checking in tomorrow!!! Let's see how well he has learned the keyboard....

How about this?  Anyone still following this, why don't you tell us about what is going on in your state regarding GREEN Building.  We know now that ICF's are being used in several states.  What other products are being used that we may not know about? 

Houston is still behind times a little in the GREEN world so I don't have a lot to add on this note. 

A simple answer Stephanie's question. The footings are a little bigger than a conventional poured wall footing. The slab doesn't need to be any different than with a poured wall system. The ICF wall have more re-bar in them horizontally and vertical than with a typical poured wall. If you want a more technical answer I would ask Adam or Jake because they are the leading experts in ICF construction here in west Michigan.

Hi Eric, I was thinking more along the lines number of piers below the slab.  What is the weight difference between ICF's and a typical Wood Frame.

Mary and gang: I am a late nighter and an early riser.... I just don't blog in the morning!

Thanks for the invite, how do I join? How do I submit photos? I will do my best to keep up on the posts. I'm not entirely sure how this works, as there seems to be conversation going on between members that wasn't posted here?

Either way, it sounds like things are the same all over the country with attempting to educate folks about the benefits of building with ICF's. It is an uphill battle right now, but with awesome guys like Adam Bearup we are making headway!

As far as piers go, it is important to note that in each part of the country there are unique considerations due to the weather and soil conditions. Here in the north everything is put on footings which are buried in the ground below the frost line, and 99% of homes have basements. (We now call them lower levels because with ICF construction they are as comfortable as the main level!) That said, the footings are upsized on a full ICF home to distribute the increased weight over a larger area. When ICF's are used for the lower level only, the footing sizes remain the same.

Stephanie-

We don't have piers below a slab here, so it is hard for me to answer that question without knowing how homes are built in Texas.

As far as weight goes; per running foot of wall, a typical ICF weighs just over 700lbs. A stud wall might be around 15-20lbs.

Hi Jake!  We have a very high percentage of clay in our soil in Texas and with the extreme wet times and then extreme dry times they put a couple of expansion joints in the home and will often times place engineering piers under the slab to help prevent settling.  However, that is an OVERWHELMING weight difference so I will use my imagination.  :)  I would have to guess several extras would be needed.

So, how does the weight compare to re-inforced concrete?  You can tell foundation is a big issue here.  :)

I had the percentage of clay in there but then I second guessed myself and changed it to "high percentage"

Wow! Thanks TEAM Hybrid for answering my plea!

Jake - I'll call tomorrow and hook you up on Active Rain. To join you just follow the invite I sent. I'll show you how to get set up and how to get your pix posted. Thanks for the technical information. This current conversation is now 134 comments deep - it started with a conversation about ICF's and has led to many great ideas. The goal is 200 comments by the end of June and the 200th comment gets a prize!!! Wow! Scroll up to see what has been happening in the conversation. Stephanie and I have also both summarized our views of what has taken place. 

 We hope to further expand conversations in July and your input would be very valuable. 

Eric - Thanks for the simple explanation. I'm curious to see how this question about settling and piers compares to the Michigan foundations.

See what I love about TEAM Hybrid! These are the type of professionals (in addition to all who have been actively engaged in this conversation) who we want in our "consultant network" conversation. Talk about a mastermind group! 

Great answer Jake. I knew you could explain it better than me.

I am very curious about solar and renewable energy as it plays into this conversation.

I found this link to some really neat calculations we can use to compute weather data...but I am wondering who does the REALTOR contact when his/her client is looking to site a home so that it will take advantage of solar energy?

 

 

 

I used to be a traditional stick builder in Utah while I was a real estate investor. Moved to Austin, and became a REALTOR, but missed the building so I started a new company with a partner (who's from Wisconsin) where we focus on building green.

We have been very surprised by the "closed mindedness" of contractors in this area to new ways to do things. And I'm not just talking about building green, just other ways to effectively do something. 

We already are actually a distributor for a wall panel system that uses the EPS mentioned above but reinforced by 20 gauge steel. We too have to run a cost analysis because as the builders around here say, "A customer would rather have $5K in nicer appliances than better insulation or soundproofing." But back to doing things different, you'd be shocked to see how they build the foundation walls for daylight basements out here in the hill country! I can't describe it, it is so horrific! And because of the extra labor & materials a quote for a flat poured slab went from $25,000 to $75,000 just by adding a ten foot high foundation wall on the face and side walls.

The panels we use are structural, but more compared to a framed wall, so they aren't meant for subsurface support. After 5 quotes by different contractors, I finally just contacted an ICF guy. The quote came in much more reasonable, although still higher than what I was hoping.

(By the way, Tom, I can't get a hold of this guy for anything and can't seem to find another ICF guy around here. So if you have a referral for the Austin area, then that'd be VERY appreciated.)

Anyway, when I mentioned to a couple of other builders that I plan on just using ICFs for daylight basement scenarios they think I'm crazy. They think that it'd be MUCH harder to deal with since they're not used to it.  I constantly try to find new & different yet better, however your point about the end dollar is DEFINITELY a reality in this market.

As I posted on another blog, I am a HUGE advocate for growing the green industry as fast as possible, but I feel that COST will continue to prohibit a mainstream use. If there was a demand like there has been for Diesel, then maybe the Gov't could get involved to offset losses of companies, I dunno, I don't have the answers, just the questions. I like the saying, "It's a cinch by an inch, it's hard by a yard." This doesn't mean it's easier to grow slowly, instead of taking leaping bounds forward. Quite the opposite. It means it's easier to grow faster by taking smaller profits up front, compared to charging premium. 

Just look at Solar Panels. They've been around for how long? How much market share do they own? 3% or less?  

Anyway, I'd like to see the price go down on Concrete, ICF's, wall panel systems, recycled flooring etc.,but it could just be a dream!

They think that it'd be MUCH harder to deal with since they're not used to it. 

Robert, you hit the nail on the head. That, and not being able to get info from a rep. I will have Rich from Build Block or Jake from R-Value get with you  to see who they can connect to you in your neck of the woods. Jake just chimed in above and is going to be come an active member of the community. Rich's invite is also on the way.

In the meantime, hold a hard line. Keep advocating. I think you will be surprised with what you find when you get with a reputable ICF rep. I'm sure Tom will also get you with one. 

They've been around for how long? How much market share do they own? 3% or less?  

As we advocate the products for the BENEFITS the market share will gain. I don't believe the cost is that much of a difference especially using a builder who "gets it" and prices accordingly. As Adam says, as the builders are educated to the process and understand the product and installation -- FROM A GREAT REP -- they will see the light (and basque in all that solar).

Stay Green -- it's not easy!

 

JaneAnne - great place for Eric Hughes to step in. I believe he has some interesting sites he can point you towards. He began his site plan on the Herkelrath Project with google earth. I'll shout at him to check in soon.

This Eco Group is really capable of becoming a point of great reference for consumers. The topics have become very specific with excellent tips alnd links. We as a group "together" can truly become the consulting network we are talking about. I

My question-  Is there a way to add a public Q&A to this specific group ??
I have an email from someone off of my Cargo Container post. She would be a great round table discussion for us. She is in need of OUR help.    What do you think ?

Robert, I forwarded your AR contact info to Reward corporate.  Expect a call in the near future.  Stephanie, I have to agree with the earlier posts concering piers.  Here in the northeast, most construction incorporates full "living space" below grade.  ICF jobs that don't have lower levels typically use slab-on-grade and frost-walls on a standard footer.

Soil classification does have a significant impact on rebar schedule for below-grade walls.  Reward's website has many engineering tables (based on IRC or ACI standards) that give design parameters.  Your best bet is a local engineer or architect familiar with ICF design, local conditions and local codes.

In terms of cost, I think ICF's aren't that far out of line with typical construction costs.  I have installers who actually compete with (and beat) 2 x 6 framing costs.  It's these guys who hold the cards, and as they climb the learning curve, they improve their efficiencies and lower their labor costs. 

That being said, when a product provides value, both perceived and inherent, isn't it usually worth more?  

Sorry.  I forgot to sign that last post.

JaneAnne your first step should be to find a residential designer or architect with experience in sustainable design and passive solar to help with placing the home properly. There are a lot of different thing to take into consideration and these ideas change depending on which part of the country you are in.

Baby came early this morning - 2:35am!  See my post here:

http://activerain.com/blogsview/133948/A-New-baby

Thanks for all the well wishes!  Please try to post any baby comments at this post so my wife can read them easily.

 Jeff

Robert, you have a great point.  I don't think many builders are willing to take the dive and go against the grain. I wish more builders would go green and take the chance as you and others have.  Thanks for taking initiative.

JaneAnne, findsolar.com has contractors for areas that handle Active Solar and a good designer/eco-architect would be a good one to contact for passive solar.  GBC or a local sustainable builder would be a good place to start. 

Michele,  Great idea!

Tom, We don't have living space below grade, wish we did.  I think it's a great idea.  Your comment on weight gave me a good idea of what would be needed.  That is amazing about the price comparison.  I guess I will have to find someone here that uses ICF's.

Jeff- CONGRATULATIONS!

Jeff,  Wow, so much information now available from your post and all the comments. Stephanies, http://findsolar.com/ was a great site too.

OK, 53 more comments to go.  Hmm...

I don't think we have talked about flooring yet.  Does anyone have input on GREEN flooring?

Michele~

I totally am excited about your idea (see about 10 commments back y'all)..and lt us know what OU think...

Steph~ I don't think we have talked about flooring...and I LOVE that idea

 

so here's what I want to know...could y'all tell me the fetues and benefits of

1) radiant floor heat..

2) rescued heart-of-pine floors,

3) non toxic recyclable carpet,

4)bamboo, and marmoleum...

great conversation, BTW! YAY-Yeah!

 

 

 few more topics to carry us to the dark chocolate....

Tell us what you know about

EnergyStar Program

EPA Green Power Partnership

Million Solar Roof Initiative

South-facing orientation

JaneAnne. I used all but rescued hart of pine floor on our show home for the 2007 Michigan energy Fair. We worked with Shaw Carpet they have and outstanding recycle policy.  On back of there carpet is a 1-800-number to call and they will come and pick-up the carpet for free and recycle it. We used the shaw carpet in the Guest rooms. I love bamboo flooring and also like to use palm and coconut which are also a fast growth product. Bamboo is lighter in color like clear maples and can be a little darker like a stained oak Palm and coconut are darker like cherry and mahogany. They are all very strong and durable. We used bamboo thru out the show home. Marmoleum is a natural product made from linseed oil, wood flour, rosin, jute and limestone. It is available in a comprehensive range of design elements. Very durable product we used it in the wet bar area. Another product we use was cork floors they were used in our bathrooms and kitchen. Cork is great because the tree is never cut down the cork is the bark of the tree and is sheded yearly. Cork comes is a varity of color. We also stained the concrete floors which is very attractive and works great with radiant floor heat. We used radiant floor heat thru-out the home and used it to heat the garage floor, front porch and driveway also. We had solar hot water panel on the home to pre-heat the water for our radiant floor system.

Eric & All... 

Verrrry interesting analysis an array of options for floor covering. Besides the positive results from recycling, which floor is the least toxic, I am wondering...or which is NON-toxic? Any information on that?

IOW...I am definitely concerned here about which (or if all) are safe/safest for  a baby...

 

This little guy needs to be where he is NOT ingesting toxic chemicals....Here's to safe floor coverings for ECO-All-Star's JEff's new baby!!! This one's for your angel, Jeff...

xoxoxoxo SAFE FOR BABIESxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxoxo

All of them can be non toxic it all has to due how you finish or coat the products. Look for Non-toxic and low or no-voc products.

How about the adhesives? When placing flooring, is off-gassing a problem? 

And I had heard that dyes in some carpets are carcinogenic...I can imagine a toddler crawling along on the new carpet, and then sticking his wet fingers in his mouth to ingest something that could cause him/her harm in the long run.... . .

 

It's Buzz back from the Energy Fair and the phone has not quit ringing all week! Exciting things are happening. It looks like I have been missing out on some very good conversation.

Eric- good post on the flooring. We are a Shaw dealer, we also do the cork and bamboo. Marmoleum has been tough for us to find good installers. Can you pass a name along who did yours? Did they do a good job? My installers have a fear of the product due to lack of knowledge about it. I don't know enough about it. It is something our Green Team will be looking into to figure out the best way to utilize it. We also do the recycled heart pine. Basically, Team Green can take care of your needs on that! Thanks for the heads up on the up and coming products!

Old floors can also be refinished with a low/no -voc water based finishes.

Jeff - congrats on the new addition to your family! How proud you must be.

Very interesting conversation.

This was a great post and a great discussion that it generated.  I read many of the comments and will have to go back and catch more of them.

Did I miss something.  This not featured?  I flagged it, good luck.

 

                                                            SUMMARY

 

Mary Bigelow  writes, " I find [this post] demonstrates that as professionals we have the ability
1. to learn about new technology
2. disseminate information to consumers and other professionals
3. engage in stimulating conversation through this beast we call the "net"

Our Group has been able to share what is happening in our "neck of the woods", what is working,  and ideas to not only help it work in other parts of the country but how to educate consumers and show the benefits. Very important! Through this conversation we have identified several important issues/concerns and benefits - we have merged our thoughts.

We have discussed various financial aspects - insurance, up front costs, longevity, mortgages, affordability...

We have discussed health benefits. We have discussed the technology and physicsbehind the ICF's. Holy Toledo! What a well rounded conversation!!! It has been filled with educational points and has developed into a "mini" seminar with tiny bits of information, a little at a time, which has made it easier to digest!

 

Come on Gang...ADD YOUR .02 Cents.. just 40 comments to go..can we make it? ????????? ..

  

There are still some topics out thereunder the green umbrella. . .chime in.  "

janeAnne (Moderator) here: Tell us what you know about

EnergyStar Program

EPA Green Power Partnership

Million Solar Roof Initiative

South-facing orientation

RE-Posted from the "lost & found pile"...and belonging here

The GREEN TAKE-OVER!!   The topics and discussion have opened up conversation avenues from new tech to legacy methods.  Real Estate Professionals can benefit from all the knowledge and so can their clients.

06/28/2007

by JudyAnn Lorenz, PREVA

RE-Posted from the "lost and found" pile...& belonging here: 

. . .great summary of the Jeff Geoghans blog. I think that the education and marketing of green building is just in its infancy and that more creative and innovative ways to market these homes is needed. In our Eco Certification classes here in Asheville I have seen the surveys where builders typically underestimated by $10-15K how much buyers would be willing to pay for additional energy efficient and green features in a home. Of course this will vary a bit by market but getting the ideas and concepts out to builders, Realtors, financing institutions, etc is where the rubber meets the road.   

06/28/2007

by Bill Westel

RE-Posted from the "lost & found pile"...and belonging here

The more communication there is between Realtors, lenders, builders, etc the more our combined industries will be able to encourage green building. Interest rate reductions offset higher construction costs. Evryone gains.

06/28/2007

by Sharon Simms St Pete Florida CRS CIPS CLHMS

Delete Report as Spam

RE-Posted from the "lost & found pile"...and belonging here

I still have so much to learn in this area but getting some great blogging material locally - hope to be more active soon (business is busy - which is great but cramps my blogging time :-)) Thanks for all you do!

06/28/2007

by Cyndee Haydon > Clearwater FL Real Estate > Tampa Bay Area Real Estate

                                                            SUMMARY

 

Mary Bigelow  writes, " I find [this post] demonstrates that as professionals we have the ability
1. to learn about new technology
2. disseminate information to consumers and other professionals
3. engage in stimulating conversation through this beast we call the "net"

Our Group has been able to share what is happening in our "neck of the woods", what is working,  and ideas to not only help it work in other parts of the country but how to educate consumers and show the benefits. Very important! Through this conversation we have identified several important issues/concerns and benefits - we have merged our thoughts.

We have discussed various financial aspects - insurance, up front costs, longevity, mortgages, affordability...

We have discussed health benefits. We have discussed the technology and physicsbehind the ICF's. Holy Toledo! What a well rounded conversation!!! It has been filled with educational points and has developed into a "mini" seminar with tiny bits of information, a little at a time, which has made it easier to digest!

 

Come on Gang...ADD YOUR .02 Cents.. just 40 comments to go..can we make it? ????????? ..

  

There are still some topics out thereunder the green umbrella. . .chime in.  "

janeAnne (Moderator) here: Tell us what you know about

EnergyStar Program

EPA Green Power Partnership

Million Solar Roof Initiative

South-facing orientation

Safe flooring. I can comment on that. As a home stager, I have walked into many new constructions and I am over whelmed with physical reactions. In case you don't know, I have allergies and Asthma so there are times that I have to walk out of the property mid the consultation.

Wouldn't it be nice to get a "green house" consultation?

FABULOUS idea from a fabulous stager. THX , Leslie..."Green" House consultations. How about list ...what would be included?... exterior..native landscaping...rain gardens and rain barrels...exterior finishes...drainage...orientation... AND...interior...(??)

Leslie - I am working on exactly that idea.  It has grown out of my ruminations over how to translate all the head knowledge I'm acquiring about products, practices and principles that drive a home into the next performance level.  What seems to make sense for a realtor is to develop a (developing) "green consultation". 

I wanted to briefly bring out a phrase that JaneAnne identified in another post on her blog:

"high-performance home"

I really like this view of the green home movement - it speaks right across the barrier between the new builder and the traditional builders.  For a generation, "traditional" builder HAVE bee chasing better performance - and in the true sense of the concept that's what the green building movement offers them.  Sustainability can be viewed as a performance byproduct, rather than the end-goal. 

There is definitely a way to dramatically expand the greener homes movement - that's by focusing the marketing of it on the performance aspect.

Deep thought for Friday evening... 

Thanks for the excellent and thorough summaries written here - I can't imagine trying to recap all of what is being said!

 

Excellant comments and I love the way we are rolling through different topics. There is so much involved in each and every step of green building and various levels of "greening" one can do. An important point to remember is that you can "green" your current home - lightbulbs, dual flush toilets, recycling, composting...the list goes on.

JaneAnne, you asked about EnergyStar -- I now know that a LEED-H certified house must, at , minimum, meet EnergyStar Standards. There are certain tax benefits that can be used when your home is energy star rated. My link is to a chart showing the different benefits. That gives the homeowner additional savings and will offset some of the up front costs. This is not only for new homes but for remodeling/improvements.

 

Mary~

To get tax benefits, a real property has to be a "QEP"...I'm writing something for my BLOG about this right now...to be posted tomorrow...called QEPs. . .Qualified Energy Properties...Can You Recognize a QEP When You See One? A couple of the QEPs I cover are...      Advanced main air circulating fan used in natural gas, propane, or oil furnaces that uses no more than 2 percent of the total annual energy use of the furnace, , and geothermal heat pumps.

 

PS..OH! I just hopped over to take a peek at the chart you included....very nice chart!

Jeff~   on CONSULTING

Again...Let's get into that idea of offering a "green consultation"..maybe we all can work together to create a checklist...something that would include various themes we have seen open up here in this conversation...it could include financing, mortgages, tax credits, exterior and interior features, remodels...from free to not too expensive to big time...and so forth...

Jeff~ on HIGH-PERFORMANCE HOME

Like you I like the term, "high-performance home"... You mentioned that you really like this view of the green home movement...I agree...this offers a perspective that this phrase  the nail on  the head and can appeal to a large audience who may think you have to wear sandals to get into "green"...

JaneAnne - I am very interested in developing the "green consultation" more. This would be a great value added service for our clients and would set us apart. This would also weed out the "green washers" in the field. I think referral networks and strategic partners are also very important in the equation. I can't wait for your QEP blog!

Wow! This conversation really took off today!  I have to catch up.

JaneAnne- I was reading somewhere the other day about heat pumps...just don't remember where right now. Anyhow, it was saying to they are more cost effective BUT in Colder climates they are actually worst for the environment.  It was way over my head so I didn't finish reading it but if I can find it I will put the link here.

Jeff and JaneAnne - good perspective on the "High-Performance Home". I like JaneAnne's comment that you don't have to be wearing sandals! Unfortunately many people DO see the "green" movement as a bunch of hippies or identify with political groups and tree huggers. That is  barrier we must overcome and High Performance is a great description! Awesome suggestions!

Stephanie! Hey girl! I feel just like you ! I have been trying to catch up all week. I'd love to see the heat pump information. What are they? to replace a furnace (we need those in the north!) I am curious as to why they attribute them to being worse for the environment.

Where is WooHoo Sally? We're almost there!

Leslie-  I have thought about advertising in the Houston Allergy and Asthma Assoc. Magazine.  I too suffer from severe allergies and when I go in a Green home I can SO feel the difference.  Maybe I will just have to go for that advertisement. :)

Mary, I'm still catching up with the conversation but I'll email her and see what's up.

Ok, I think I am caught up.

I like the idea of pulling together a Consultation list as well.  I think it should have local info as well as national websites...and maybe some of our posts. :)  Don't forget about the other stuff we talked about for July. Mmmm....Oh yeah. The network deal. 

As far as "High Performance Home" I agree that it is a concept that is taking off.  I mentioned to Mary the other day that at the Home Show in Houston last weekend the LEED builder I know had more interest in his GREEN product that in regular construction. He has 2 companies.  He said it was overwhelming.  Now, I just need to find these people. :)

Yes. Eric pointed out 2 distinct purchasing demographics at the energy fair -- retiring baby boomers and very internet savvy, educated buyers in the younger age groups - 25 - 35 yo's. I think both of these groups are very good indicators of what is up and coming!

Mary, When I did my branding last year I did it to attract the younger crowd in advertising. Statistically Under 40's are really coming up the ranks and are buying and selling more than other generations.  The GREEN topics fit right in with that.  Baby Boomers...we are seeing more interests from them here in Houston right now.  I will have to talk to Michael about demographics from the Home Show.

Yes, it would be nice to compare numbers from different areas of the country. I think the 20's and early 30 crowds will also be more intune. Speaking with a High School teacher from Hart, Michigan at the Herkelrath Project he said he is required to teach a unit on energy efficiency. I think our younger generations will be much more aware.

I just got home...and here in Hawaii ..and funny how we don't hear much on all this over here. In fact, to be really honest...I have been reading everyones posts and trying to keep up with everything...and trying to learn. Click on the following link to view a ICF home....in Makiki. 

http://www.wdcicf.com/Makiki-Home/Makiki-Home1.htm

 

 

Okay...where'd you guys go???? It's not time to quit yet!!!!  Okay...I'm going to go take a shower and when I come back there better be 17 more comments!

janeAnne, I think the list and consultation on the MANY green products avaialble and the problems that it addresses, are great ideas. When we give added value (additional service) , our clients gain, we gain and our earth gains . (Boy do we all gain with this)

Jeff, Please continue working on your consultation service. It is very important to the health and existance of every one

Jeff and janeAnne,  While working with my clients, I definitely see a need for this service from Real Estate Professionals.  And the value of providing easy to understand solutions will be better received. Many people want to "help" but get confused on how.

Please let's work on this!

Stephanie, I think advertising in the Houston Allergy and Asthma Assoc. Magazine would be a great idea for you. A way to reach those clients that need your help immediately, Leslie

It is NOW almost "midnight" in nonlocal  space...where time doesn't count....so let's see if we get 12more comments before the "devil finds out we're dead"...IOW..we have an extended deadline  'til NOON today!

SUMMARY  

We have discussed various financial aspects - insurance, up front costs, longevity, mortgages, affordability... We have discussed health benefits. We have discussed the technology and physicsbehind the ICF's. Come on Gang...ADD YOUR .02 Cents..
just 10 comments to go..

AND Jeff's NEW ANGEL BABY requested AN EXTENDED DEADLINE so how could we refuse, right?

can we make it? ?????????  we have until NOON today. . .

JaneAnne, I just got online and I have stuff to add and some questions.  I'll keep going!

Good morning ECO All Stars. I woke up to  a beautiful Michigan day excited about all the possibilities. I agree that advertising to the "allergy" crowd is a great idea. I also think a prime focus should be pointing this out to people who suffer allergies (I think the majority these days although they may not connect the dots). I was having a great discussion with my sister-in-law, ( Who's Your Shawn) about the allergy issues her sister has had since she moved into her newly constructed home a few years ago. My feelings are that it is directly related to the off-gassing of new materials and VOC's in the home.What homeowner wouldn't take the trade off if they knew that up front?

I think Sally should get an Eco Designation.  Wouldn't everyone like to hear about GREEN Hawaii?  All in favor say AYE!

My office built in a new location a couple of years ago and it took me well over a year to be able to go in and work without getting sick.  The carpet, paint and adhesives for the carpet were just overwhelming.  Just when I thought it was getting better they started building out other shops in the strip and the sheetrock dust was suffocating.  Yuck!  The Health side of GREEN is amazing.  Anyone have HEPA Filter info?

Sally, welcome back! The Hawaii ICF you have linked to is GREAT! I love the pictures - GREAT to see the process come together, isn't it? These are truly great structures and after all these years they are finally taking off. Adam's Dad started trying to get them accepted in our part of the world back in the early 90's. They have great journals chronicalling the work they did back then...glad to see some very intelligent people in all parts of the US finally seeing the vision!

I agree - Go ECO designation Sally!

I don't have HEPA info but I'm sure with your plea there will be someone bringing back a wealth of knowledge on it!

That made me think about your letter to the editor -- did you ever get a response?

EDUCATION: I agree...on ECO certified education for real estate professionals...especially considering the Big Wave (Sally) coming with consumer demand for healthy-built homes and sustainable design.

OFFICE WELLNESS: Great idea to work without getting sick from toxic off-gassing and chemicals...Indoor Air Quality is a must in today's workplace.

 

Good Morning JaneAnne!

You must be proud of what your All Stars have accomplished! I dare say we will make the deadline!

WooHoo  !

It looks like there are a couple of us lurking to pounce on 200!!!

What a great conversation we have developed -- useful, helpful ideas.

Everyone who contributed or even took a peak to read deserves a gold star today!

TWO HUNDRED!!!!

Ah Man! What did Mary Win?  :)

Mary, they didn't respond to my email but they published it in the paper the next day. I updated the post so everyone could see how much they fluffed my email.  :) 

Regarding marketing -

If you have not read these books they are awesome

Purple Cow by Seth Godin and the sequel The Big Moo by The Group of 33, edited by Seth Godin. My associate Pete alerted me to The Big Moo. Excellant books that will help make your thoughts and business model remarkable. They will be great tools to help bring this Green Build to the spotlight. 

GREENINGS Y'ALL!

You must be very pleased with the evolution of this conversation . It has blossomed into a vibrant showing of talent, energy, knowledge.... a vital community "brain trust" . . .I am sure proud to know all of you!

Possibly, if we go back and EDIT our posts,  we easily could organize this information into a document that  can be shared. It might be the beginning of a Checklist for High- Peformance Living Spaces...

OUTSIDE-related(ex. native landscaping)

INSIDE-related (ex. indoor air quality)

SERVICE-related (ex. financing)

EDUCATION-related (ex. expos, certification)

 

The suspense is killing me! Here's a wink and a nod to you Stephanie! I have had great fun !

Why don't we see if we can make it to 300?  :)

I agree and I think with a highlight on the Big Board others will chime in with their .02 cents and we will expand  with input from other professionals and also share our Friendly messages!

Good Work ECO All Stars. This has been a very fun and enlightening project to be a part of!

Wow! What a lot of reading to do!

Robert, to find a competent ICF guy-go to the Insulating Concrete Form association's website www.forms.org. There they have a list of contractor members by location. I would highly recommend using only ICF guys who are members of the ICFA.

Hi Jake -- thought you didn't blog in the morning! Ha! Great to see you!

JaneAnne -

I like the idea. I am currently reading through the NAHB MODEL Green Home Building Guidelines. The Guiding Principles are:

1. Lot Design, Preparation and Development
2. Resource Efficiency
3. Energy Efficiency
4. Water Efficieny
5. Indoor Environmental Quality
6. Operation, Maintenance and Homeowner Education
7. Global Impact
8. Site Planning and Land Development

These categories are broken down just a bit further than what you proposed.

 The guidelines can be downloaded free from the website provided above.

I like the idea you have suggested about editing to categorize. What do you propose editing, the title? Teach me!

ICF is really catching on in my area. We have a builder who is even doing addtions to existing traditional homes with ICF. Isn't it nice to see green spreading?

YAY-Yeah!!!!!  200 comments and still going!                  
CONGRATULATIONS to all who participated in the
JUNE ECO-All-Star CHALLENGE...

MARY WINS THE PRIZE!!!!!!! Hers was comment 200...
I'm sending you an ORGANIC DARK CHOCOLATE treat, Mary =) 

In fact...Let's ALL OF US go out and get some organic dark chocolate today!

 

Thanks JaneAnne! Exciting to be a part of the little game and I love it when learning is fun! I will share my Organic Dark Chocolate with my friends and associates who have helped develop this conversation.

EXCELLENT Input from everyone! The 200th comment was a little boring but sometimes less words are better!! and it felt sweet rolling off my fingertips!

I'm on my way to pick up my special order book, Pyromarketing, written by West Michigan's own Greg Stielstra. I ordered the book from Schuler's Book Store! I think they have a chocolate section!!

Hi Jeff,

I'm sorry I wasn't a part of this conversation before but I've been a bit overwhelmed the past couple of days. I really found your post very informative.  Here in the Lowcountry these types of construction techniques are just starting to be utilized, but finding builders that actually use them are few and far between. I've just begun working on a building project myself, and ended up choosing a builder who isn't very up on any of the latest building green products and techniques. Hopefully I will be able to enlighten them a bit, if not convert them altogether!

Again thanks for the post!

D. 

 

Good morning everyone - I was trying to skim through the comments, but 200+ is a little more and I hav certain time contraints, so I'll tell you what's on my mind (from an architectural point of view).  In South America and Europe, they don't build exterior walls with food, EVER!!  It was surprising to me to see so much wood-fram construction in this country - the negatives are endless ---->molds, insulation, sturdiness, life expentancy...........there is only one major positive and that is price!

Let me also tell you that interior walls are done with concrete and brick - it's pretty amazing, and the insulation factor is fantastic.  Most of these countries don't even use drywall, that's an American concept.  They wire lath and plaster right over the concrete. 

Any company that is pushing the use of concrete with whatever system they create, is a good company.  Costly do doubt, but with endless possibilities and return on your investment.

(I apologize for not reading all the comments and the discussion and so sorry I'm late to the party.....thanks janeAnne for the heads up)

Woohoo!  215 comments!  Congrats to Mary B.

This has been a wonderful conversation. Lots of things to act on...

This post (and all the comments that flowed out of the discussion) points to two important things that I would like to point out.

1. Quality content in a blog is extremely important.  Jeff once again has done a superlative job in that regard.
2. Marketing your blogs is key to building a quality conversation, with lots of comments.  JaneAnne, in her role as moderator of the ECO-ALL STARS~ The GREEN Scene Group, has done a phenomenal job in marketing this post, to bring it to the attention of all of us that benefited from reading and contributing to the conversation.

Congratulations to the two of you for demonstrating the value of a quality blog, and the importance of the ActiveRain groups.

SUMMARY  

We discussed various financial aspects - insurance, up front costs, longevity, mortgages, affordability... We have discussed health benefits. We have discussed the technology and physics behind the latest products for healthy-built homes.

We concluded that we would like to examine a team-effort to create a consulting network of resources for clients and professionals interested in high-performance buildings and eco-friendly land use.

NOW we are working on organizing all the  information we have gathered here so that folks who come here in the future can have a "Table of Contents"

This "Table of Contents" also could be the framework for a (TBA) checklist eco-certified real estate professionals could use when doing a "high-performance" review for our clients. . .

Here's what the Table of Contents looks like..so far

• Site Planning and Land Development,
  Lot Design, Preparation and Development,
  Environmental Impact, Ecology, Hydrology, Landscaping 

• Construction, Building materials and methods

• Resource Efficiency
• Energy Efficiency
• Water Efficiency
• Indoor Environmental Quality
• Operation, Maintenance and Homeowner Education 
  
• Real Estate Services 
  
• Consulting Services
  
• Financial Services
  
• Global Impact

We are ready to think about establishing a referral network of professionals who can e a resource for those intrested in high-perfromace living spaces and eco-friendly land use.  

I will post this to the Group. UPDATE: I posted our news here:

 

Jeff, when you get a chance, i was thinking about something during my drive today, Are all ICF insulated walls the same? I mean, at the Energy Fair, there were several different manufacturers, some looked like they had less space between the styrofoam. And, on some, the plastic inside looked very flimsy.

If this was brought up before, just let me know, I'll look when i have a better connection.

I'm interested in pursuing the idea of a network we can found in this arena.

To answer the question: Are all ICF's the same?

No, of the 50 or so different brands of ICF's, they are definitely not the same.  There are different thicknesses of concrete for different uses.  Also the tie and stud strength vary between brands, as well as it's on center spacing.  The interlock is different between brands too, and so is the thickness of the insulation itself.  Many of these differences make for more or less waste.  There are a couple of blocks I recommend avoiding because of a lower quality finished product, but most of them are similiar once installed.  All will give the homeowner a high-performance home when installed correctly.

I will be sending out a newsletter this month that discusses in detail the main differences between blocks, and how to choose a block to use.  This will end up posted on the "more information" page of our website.  If any are interested in signing up for our monthly newsletter, you can visit our website and follow the link at the bottom of the page to sign up.  www.rvaluehomes.com

THANKS for the information, Jake...Good to keep this conversation going and use it to create points of interest and resources we all can-use.

Jake - again, thanks for the valuable information!!!

SUMMARY AND NEXT STEPS:

SUMMARY  

We discussed various financial aspects - insurance, up front costs, longevity, mortgages, affordability... We have discussed health benefits. We have discussed the technology and physics behind the latest products for healthy-built homes.

We concluded that we would like to examine a team-effort to create a consulting network of resources for clients and professionals interested in high-performance buildings and eco-friendly land use.

NOW we are working on organizing all the  information we have gathered here so that folks who come here in the future can have a "Table of Contents"

This "Table of Contents" also could be the framework for a (TBA) checklist eco-certified real estate professionals could use when doing a "high-performance" review for our clients. . .

Here's what the Table of Contents looks like..so far

• Site Planning and Land Development,
  Lot Design, Preparation and Development,
  Environmental Impact, Ecology, Hydrology, Landscaping 

• Construction, Building materials and methods

• Resource Efficiency
• Energy Efficiency
• Water Efficiency
• Indoor Environmental Quality
• Operation, Maintenance and Homeowner Education 
  
• Real Estate Services 
  
• Consulting Services
  
• Financial Services
  
• Global Impact

We are ready to think about establishing a referral network of professionals who can e a resource for those intrested in high-perfromace living spaces and eco-friendly land use. 

 PLEASE COMMENT BELOW . . . let us know if you would be interested in being contacted as we develop our "consulting network" information.

I would be interested!

I would be interested!

 

Thanks Eric & Jake

Go to JaneAnne's High Performance Blog

We are developing the idea and would like your input!

Jake, thanks for your answer. Wow, lots of additional information. This is a hard group to stay updated.

Jeff, belated congratualtions, I wasn't able to read about the baby until today.

Thanks Gary!  I just saw your comment...it's been an adventure!

Thanks to all for the continuing conversation.

Hi guys, I found out about an SIP guy around the corner from my office.  How would like for me to do a post on that?  I do not know a whole lot about them...actually, I understand the concept but not much more than that.

SIP's are good products that are gaining speed in the market from what I understand. I have spoken with several builders who like using them. They would be a good topic to blog about!

I skimmed the entire blog really fast, so kind of get what's going on. Very cool, I have been blessed to find this group and discover its enthusiasm... please keep me posted as I dearly want to be in the loop on consulting network as it develops. I would love to review and contribute to the green house consultation, as I have American Lung Association Master Home Environmentalist training, have sold green building products, developed trainings for contractors, and coordinated trade shows that brought together vendors and consumers, etc etc. All before starting up my staging business, and ready now to get this off the back burner

 

Thanks for sharing, Paula!  Go for it....

I would like to be a part of this group too! 

As a LEED for Homes Faculty and LEED for Homes Provider with projects in 11 states I would like to introduce myself to your green blog participants. I have skimmed through the postings and stand ready to discuss the salient points of LEED for Homes, Green Communities and/or NAHB Green Building Guidelines. There is a lot of mis-information in the industry that could lead you down the wrong path if you don't research the available programs from a credible source. When I'm talking about credible I am referring to an official source. I would be happy to answer any questions. If I don't know the answer I will be able to steer you to the right source.

Great to see you joining in Mike. For thous of you that don't know Mike he is one of the most knowledgeable people I know on green building and the LEED for Homes program. This group it lucky to have him as a member. Please don't hesitate to ask him questions.

Hi Katharaine,  Welcome aboard!

Hi Michael,  Glad to have you here.  I can't wait to here what you have to share.  I read today in Houston how they are changing our Quick Start program for LEED Homes.  It is really starting to take hold down here..atleast it seems.

SUMMARY AND NEXT STEPS:

SUMMARY  

We discussed various financial aspects - insurance, up front costs, longevity, mortgages, affordability... We have discussed health benefits. We have discussed the technology and physics behind the latest products for healthy-built homes.

We concluded that we would like to examine a team-effort to create a consulting network of resources for clients and professionals interested in high-performance buildings and eco-friendly land use.

NOW we are working on organizing all the  information we have gathered here so that folks who come here in the future can have a "Table of Contents"

This "Table of Contents" also could be the framework for a (TBA) checklist eco-certified real estate professionals could use when doing a "high-performance" review for our clients. . .

Here's what the Table of Contents looks like..so far

• Site Planning and Land Development,
  Lot Design, Preparation and Development,
  Environmental Impact, Ecology, Hydrology, Landscaping 

• Construction, Building materials and methods

• Resource Efficiency
• Energy Efficiency
• Water Efficiency
• Indoor Environmental Quality
• Operation, Maintenance and Homeowner Education 
  
• Real Estate Services 
  
• Consulting Services
  
• Financial Services
  
• Global Impact

We are ready to think about establishing a referral network of professionals who can e a resource for those intrested in high-perfromace living spaces and eco-friendly land use. 

 PLEASE COMMENT BELOW . . . let us know if you would be interested in being contacted as we develop our "consulting network" information.

JaneAnne - I've been a little lost trying to figure out where I can contribute, so I am glad you posted this.  Now the Project Blogger is done, please count on me, I think these efforts are fabulous!

Ines~ 

Feels like this project needs a "steering' committee...I am hoping that Stephanie, Jeff, Mary and YOU can talk about how to grow this baby.. ...let me know how it evolves, OK?

janeAnne, 

I was just thinking about how to make it grow.  :)  I was thinking maybe we should get the Eco's together first.  We had several people interested at first...

PS...

Everyone...   as mentioned earlier, we started the GREEN RESOURCES DIRECTORY GROUP...Maybe we can funnel all of our informationinto posts there and then edit it...how does that sound to y'all?

Here is the link: http://activerain.com/groups/hiperformancehomes

 

 

 

Are we going to put links of our posts there and then update the Resource posts?

Steph~ 

...we DO have a good start on referrals...with each-of us handling categories...How about if we make this the OCTOBER CHALLENGE???

Is anyone familiar with GE's Ecomagination product with the optional Solar Panels?  Is it basically Energy Star with panels on the house?  I am having a hard time understanding this product.

janeAnne,  I think this as the October Challenge would be great!

Stephanie - let me see what I can find out. I will also check with Mike Holcomb (new AR member - HERS rater) to see what he knows.

STEPHANIE AND ALL ECO INTERESTED FOLKS:

You know I hate copy and paste. That aside, following is the email I recieved from Mike Holcolm tonight regardging the question you posed:

All...

GE has partnered with Masco Contractor Services to promote Environments for Living (MASCO "green building" program). This is generally an energy efficient program with minor emphasis on water and indoor air quality. It really is a promotion of GE appliances and MASCO services. The builder pays a hefty fee and is given an energy use guarantee for heating/cooling. Not as much green as it is self promotion. MASCO is expected to spend about $10-million on national marketing in an effort to sell insulation packages. Interesting part about the energy audit is that MASCO either does the audits or farms out portions of the testing. Either way, they are in control of what the "alleged" energy use would be. So, if they test and tell the consumer the baseline is X and they are willing to guarantee W the consumer has no way of knowing that the baseline wasn't actually W to begin with. (That's easier to explain in person with a chalk board:)

 Stephanie - you can check out Mike at the link above. He is a wealth of knowledge. Good add to the post! Thanks for calling our attention to this!

 

And how come Mike doesn't have any comments on his post???

http://activerain.com/blogs/mholcomb

Sorry if the link is out of line.  It is an interesting post.

I think I will email him.

Stephanie!  LOL!

Email him! He told me he is not out there to surf and find stuff to do but he is happy to help us out with information!

I had emailed the question to the group and he emailed back promptly! Thought I would copy and paste it for him as he didn't see the original post!

There are good things coming from Mike! Always a good resource and good trainings! We are fortunate to have his presence in Michigan -- he could go anywhere!

OOPS!! Thanks for the link -- I didn't see his post either! We need to get him posting to our group!

Thanks for the heads up!

I got the email and replied to the whole group so you know what's going on. 

Got it! Back At you!

The others will chime in tomorrow I'm certain!

Corporate Green Washing in my opinion. I is designed to make themselves look good. No third party testing mean that there program is and will not be a creditable program.

ERIC -

I agree. Thanks for your input and the more we can highlight this the better off we will all be! It's getting darn confusing out there.

ALL - read Mike Holcomb's post that Stephanie highlighted for a great explanation of what ERIC is referring to.

Hi Eric, thanks for jumping in.  So in your opinion, (1) will the home lose efficiency and (2) is it a product worth me selling as an agent if the buyer actually understands what they are buying.  They have a video that I watched and it seems to be pushing smart home features with special light bulbs and Energy Star appliances.  The actual construction of the home is not mentioned.  They will be doing the solar panels from my understanding.

I my opinion I would stick to pushing a national green standard like LEED for Homes. Who knows how long or if the program will last.

ERIC - I am in agreement with the national standard. Unfortunately I think some people feel the need to take baby steps in order to get to that caliber. That is ok. Cream always rises to the top.

IMHO - I would prefer to work with a group of people who have schooled themselves and try to achieve the highest standards. Hopefully through public awareness and education those views will be accepted and adopted by the majority.

Mary - I agree about the baby steps.  I rather see a whole lot of people making baby steps than just a few making the big changes......it's those little things that count, especially in cities like Miami where GREEN is interpreted to be a bad word by many.

Rick and Ines - I agree that GREEN is misinterpreted too many times. This forum has great writers that are working so diligently to change that perception of tree huggers! The word will get out there!

 

The fact that green is misinterpreted by many is why I am concerned about this GE product.  If it is not a good product and has problems...it could only feed the fire.  I am so curious to learn more about it.

I am going to head up to the office and call the developer.

Lots of things going on here!  We've been on vacation (in a one-room cabin with two boys 4&6 and a newborn...and no a/c) and I see that the discussion is moving along.

People don't need to pay GE to make baby step in green building. If you want to pay for certification or verification of green building go with a reputable program. Otherwise just build green as you can afford too. 

Stephanie and Eric - I am with you on this one.

Eric - I wasn't referring to GE in taking baby steps. I worry about GE being out there adding more confustion to the mix.

Jeff - welcome back!!

this is a fascinating post.   Thank you for all the information.  

Ok guys, I'm actually REALLY impressed with what the developer is wanting to do here.  The entire community will be Grey Water by the end of phase 2, there will be a solar farm for HOA stuff like the pool, street lights, etc.  The developer says they understand it is not the ideal green product but because as little as the consumer knows about green..they feel it is a good product.

By phase 5 they want to brew enough interest for there to be LEED homes. 

I wish they were using a better product in the beginning but I understand, somewhat, what they are saying.  They want to get the production builders to raise the bar here which is much needed.  I am still wishy washy about how I feel about it, but I feel like the developer may be on the right track.  We will see what the builders do with it.

Thoughts?

I just found out that they will be using a local 3rd party energy rater.

Stephanie. Having a 3rd party energy rater involed gives me a little more respect for the program. Please keep us all up to date.

Hi All--

Looks like I'm coming to the party a little late, but happy to be here none-the-less! (Joined 2 days ago)  I'd love to be part of the resource network.  I've been living green for more than 30 years and have 2 years living in an ICF that I helped build and design.  The comments about it being hard to describe what it feels like inside are true.  I'm in love with it!!!  People come in and can't believe how much it's the "strong, silent type"!!!

I'm based in Northern CA, the Lake Tahoe area, so we get a lot of snow and cold.  We have a really active group of "green minded" folks here--builders, architects, engineers and home owners.  We have a large percentage of new commercial construction that is LEED certified.  Our first ICF's were going up more than 10 years ago.

Also have my EcoBroker cert.  Would love to get to know this group!

Hi Tamara,  We've had this converation going for a while but you are welcome to join!  We kind of took over Jeff's post.  I can't wait to hear about what's going on in your area.

Hi Stephanie--

Glad to "meet" you.  There is so much going on in my area.  I'm the membership chair for the Sierra Green Building Association and these guys (and gals) are great.  We are involved in everything from promoting energy efficient home tours, monthly green speaker series, participating in/sponsoring other green events,  put out our own RESOURCE GUIDE--it's amazing....case studies, info on green lending and materials and .... plus ads from regional companies that are doing or supplying green materials.  We are even working with the town planning committee to get them to incorporate more green in proposed developments (of which there have been a lot in the last few years...)

I also proposed our MLS include green features so agents could promote and find homes with energy efficiency built in.  They adopted the proposal at the end of 2006.  It started off a little slow, but now we are getting quite a bit of useage.  Some agents don't understand what all the categories mean and I've done articles and presentations to try to get other up to speed, but I know it will take time.  We have one ICF that's listed at $2.3M.  It takes a lot of green to be green in our area!

Even some of the HOA's are starting their own Green Clubs.  A positive sign!

Recently participated in a CFL handout (yes, I know the recycling/mercury is still an issue) and was suprised how many people told us they  had already installed a lot of CFL's in their homes and offices.

Let me know how I can be of help to this group. 

Hi Tamara - I'm still trying to figure it out - but you are welcome here!  Sounds like you would be a great addition to the network.

Ines

Hi Ines--

Thank you.  I look forward to connecting with other green like minded individuals! 

Best, Tamara

Does anyone know of a Low or No VOC Stain and Sealant for Cabinets? 

Great question Stephanie! I was jus wondering the same thing. I'm thinking of redoing my kitchen cabinets. Now  I have an excuse to go shopping.

Stephanie - Buzz will be checking in and playing in the rain this afternoon -- I'll get his input on this.

 

Dena,  LOL.  That is exactly why I want to know.  I am writing a post right now that will explain why I'm re-doing part of my kitchen.  I am not going to change out my cabinets, I just want to refinish and seal them...maybe put some hardware on them...My mind wanders, but y'all probably know that by now.  :)

Thanks Mary!!

Stephanie - We are checking into some stains to recommend to you for interior cabinets. We just picked up SoyGuard for exterior finishes. I'll get information as soon as we get information from the suppliers. I believe ZAR may have a new one out there.

Thanks Buzz!

Hi Everyone, I have two more questions...

Has anyone heard of a Radiant Barrier Paint by Sherwin Williams for Interior Walls?

And does anyone know the cost savings of replacing a traditional electric water heater with an electric Tankless water heater?  Is there a significant savings in electricity?

I know that a tankless has come down in price to be competitive ($450 perhaps) but nowhere near as inexpensive as a tank heater. The installation can be the expensive part, and many plumbers haven't worked with them yet. Once everything is in, however, the picture brightens considerably. Savings are immediate, and the tankless units generally have as long a lifespan (although the recent models don't have the track record over 15 years yet).

Stephanie:

I have heard mixed results for the electric tankless heaters. I thnk it has to do with how fast the water is heated along with the volume heated. Gas is right now a much more reliable option I think.

Hi Stephanie--

On tankless--I wanted to install a system in my green construction a couple of years ago.  The local plumbing supplier really recommended that I didn't "go there" in our climate.  I'm in the mountains of Northern California and our water supply generally comes from snow melt... They told me that the supply water was "too cold" in the winter for the tankless system to be adequate.

One of the smaller local green hotels uses a tankless system though and are really happy with it.  They have a relatively complicated setup with 3 commercial grade units per so many rooms, that when one gets "over-worked" one of the others kicks in.... They said they had not had any complaints about water temp from guests.

About 10 years ago, a friend installed one in a much warmer climate and he has loved it.  Not sure what his savings are though.  I'm told they can be significant, but I don't have percentages.

 

Hi Everyone,  Gary is wanting to know information on Solar Fountains for ponds.  Anyone know about it?

Hi All--

This company has pretty cool stuff.  Haven't used here in the mountains, so don't know about performance....  http://www.solarkey.com/index.asp

Thanks Tamara,

 

Ok folks, another hard core question.  :)  If your home is using more electricity than it is being fed by the transformer (they need to bring in larger lines)  how will that affect your electric bill?  Is it possible that by simply sizing that one feed properly will even out the bills? 

HI Stephanie--

 I have forwarded your question to my conservation contact at our local utility district.  He's been in the "business" for 25+ years and is a wealth of knowledge.  I figured it would be best to get  an answer to something like this directly from the source. 

Hi Stephanie--

This is his response: 

Hi Tamara,   It should not affect energy useage. Watts equal amps times volts.   The District has to maintain a constant voltage and we do not affect amps.

Thanks Tamara,

So I guess my next option would be to replace windows.  I bumped my insulation up to an R-38 and it has made zero difference on my electric bill.  BUT as I sit here typing next to my 1982 Single Frame Aluminum window,  I'm sweating.

Here's the deal.  I will sell my house within the next 2 years.  I am trying to reduce myu electric bill to sell.  1200 sq ft home all electric= an average of $300 per month year round electric bill.  Most people could not afford this electric bill in this price range. 

BUT, If I subtract an average of $50-$60 dollars a month of what it would normally be for a gas bill...that leaves $250-$240 per month electricity.  I would like to see that at $200.  I hope that made sense what I just said. 

I know I read by Michael recently that replacing the windows is not effective enough to do...but I could do all of my south and west side windows..and sliding door for less than $1000.  Considering how much equity I have in my home...I think it might be worth it. 

What do all of you think?

Hi Stephanie--

Since you are in TX, I'm assuming most of your electric is for cooling?  Does your electric provider do free home energy audits??? This can be a great place to start.  Other ideas--compact flourescent lights do seem to make a difference.  Our utility district, based on our KWH pricing did a chart that just replacing 2-100 watt bulbs would decrease bills by $5 per month!  Savings less on lower wattage, but you get the idea.  Have you considered exterior window shades?  Interior blinds that would provide a barrier to the heat?  Are there lights that are left on for extended periods?  Are the appliances circa 1982 also?  Some of the new energy star appliances could make significant differences.  Also, many utility companies will provide rebates on them.  Places like Home Depot and Lowes usually have very competitive pricing.  May be less expensive than replacing the windows.

Good response Tamera! I would have recommended the exact same things.

Hi Stephanie:

Have you had someone come in and do an energy audit? Here in Asheville they will check for air flow and leakages, how your air ducts are configured as well as other potential energy savings moves. Sometime these audits show that your AC unit is operating 30-50% under its SEER rating.

No,  have not done an energy rating.  Here is the low down on my house.

• 10 SEER a/c  (I know...too low)
• I have not done insulation on the exterior walls
• Water Heater is 5 years old..but I got a rather efficient one for the time back then...I can't go to tankless for a reasonable cost right now.
• New Energy Star Fridge
• Energy Star washer/dryer
• Range/Hood and Dishwasher Older than dirt.
• Can't change the Bulbs in my kitchen because I have flourescent tubes...do you recommend something else?
• A/C Ducts 3 yrs. Old
• New Dryer Vent
• Roof 4 yrs old..no radiant barrier
• R-38 in attic
• Single Frame Windows and Doors
• Energy Star TV

Now,  To change out appliances it would run me over $1000.  Would it be more effective to change appliances or change windows....should I change the light in my kitchen?

The only lights I really use are one lamp in the den and the flourescent tubes in the kitchen other than that I do not use any lights until about 9 at night.  They just aren't needed.  I have blinds on all of the windows.  I considered attaching overhangs to the structure along the south and west sides, then I thought about just doing the windows.  You can literally feel air coming through some of them.

One more thing...I'm going to change out my range/hood anyhow.   Since I'm getting rid of my microwave this month.  :)   I don't think I really use them enough to really make a big difference though.

If you can feel air coming from your windows you don't need an energy audit to tell you to replace, chalk, and or put some typw of covering over them

And that is one of the amazing things.  There is no visible need to caulk.  No cracks and it looks tight.  Crazy stuff. 

Tamera and Stephanie,  Thanks for the solar pond information, that's exactly what I was looking for.

Jeff, Glad to see this post is still going strong

Stephanie, LED tube lights to replace florescent tubes. There may be other sources, these are $149.00 each

http://www.everled.com/everled-tr/

 

Wow Stephanie--

It sounds like you've done a lot already.  Perhaps the air conditioner?  A 5 year old water heater should be pretty good.  Here in the mountains, we tend to wrap them with insulation, don't know if that would help in your climate.  Air coming thru the windows is a problem.   One of my remodel projects had single pane windows a few years ago.  Covered them with heavy blinds/drapes the first year.  When I finally bit the bullet and replaced with dual pane (a lot higher $$$$ than $1000), it turned out to be more than worth it.  My energy costs dropped and the overall feel of the building tightened up.  Sounds wild, but with the big winds blowing thru, the place just seemed to "rock".  Once the new windows were in, the whole building felt more secure!

Another option that may not work in the short time you're going to be in the house--shade trees on the south and west sides....

Wow! what an awesome conversation has taken off again!

Stephanie -- I would hire a HERS rater to give you the best recommendations given your timeline. Here is the link to the raters in Tx to see where you would get the most bang for you buck! I will also send Mike Holcomb a link and ask for input. It makes me comfortable that Eric is in agreement with Tamara's recommendations! Like minds!

Tamara - welcome to the ECO AllStars! I have been out of the loop today! What great things you have to bring to our group! Thanks for your input!

Thanks Everyone.

Tamara, did you see a difference on your electric bill after replacing the windows?  I would only replace 4 windows and the sliding door.  That is the South and West side.

My dad is a handy guy and together we can do about anything so I wanted to try and replace the biggest window first.  Just one for now to see if it is as easy as it sounds.

The biggest window is 48X72 and to get a vinyl, double pane, low e window is $161.46.  So then you add caulk and new trim...an extra $20 or so.  The sliding doors...double pane, vinyl, energy star...$329 with screen. 

That was only the first place I checked..I'll check around.  If the one window is too much (work wise) then I would hire the rest done.   I have yet to find anything that my dad can not do.  Today.. I switched out 3 light fixtures..  :)

Gary,  Thanks for the link!

Stephanie - We replaced all the windows in one of the houses we bought to rehab -- yes, it was truly easy! Just make sure you measure them right and order "replacement" windows. The prices you are talking are about what we paid for ours. They were all custom sizes. What brand windows are they?

Mary,  I have wood exterior...so I can use the new construction ones from my understanding.  Did you see a difference in your bill though?

They are American something or other from Home Depot.  I am going to call a couple more places this week.

Stephanie - We had exterior wood also -- the "replacements" we were told are easier to install. It didn't take but 10 minutes a window. Check with your window people or I will check with Jeff - Standale's window guy tomorrow to be sure.

We purchased Jeldwen's from Home Depot, I believe. They were special order for the sizes. Standale also carries Jeldwen so I know they are a good window. HUGE difference, but I think the windows that were in there extremely old.

Mary-- Thanks for the welcome!  I'm enjoying it here!  Great group of eco-conscious people!

Stephanie--Yes, my electric bills went down (the condo was all electric heat).  We don't have much use for air conditioning here....  The biggest change was the comfort level!  It felt warmer and more solid.  As a full time resident, my electric bills were typically 1/2 of what the people who were only using theirs for "second homes"--once or twice a month.  I did add 2" rigid insulation to the ceiling. 

My costs were higher as I let a local glass contractor install.  He's done a lot of work for my clients and is totally reliable--and some of the windows were more than 25' off the ground!  I'm pretty handy, but I didn't want to go there!

I've just returned from LEED Faculty Retreat in Washington DC. I had the pleasure of meeting with about 70 of the most dedicated environmental educators in the country for 3-days of peer review, skill-set development and fellowship.

I would like to make a brief comment on the variety of "green building" programs currently available or on the drawing board. There is no such thing as a bad green building program. Anything that actually promotes green building or its components is actually a good thing. What is problematic is the perception that all green building programs are the same and therefor equal.

What separates green building programs is content and motivation. What is especially important about content is program requirements, third-party oversight, measurable results and the number of disciplines covered in the program. Another important issue is motivation, Who developed the program and Why? If it is a corporate program the motivation may be different than if it is a trade organization or independent non profit. Is the program designed to change the building industry? Or is it designed to maintain the status quo, to prevent change? Or is it about projecting a positive corporate image and increase the corporate bottom line?

Each program should be scrutinized for content, measurables and oversight. Consumers also need to compare programs to see how the program serves the family interests before passing judgement. Last thought nugget on this subject for this morning, If the program doesn't meet the expectations of the consumer it isn't the right program.

 The General

I'm not sure this goes here feel free to delete.

 Lawrence Tech has information available for their solar decathelon house. Here is the spreadsheet with all costs for the prototype home and suppliers.  $231,000 for home plus $400,000 for transportation, lodging, and consultants.  They also have an Open House September 21, 2007.

Hey Gary--

Very cool to have this kind of information at our fingertips!!!  Our pricing structures seem to be so out of context to building in other parts of the country....

Tamara,  I haven't had a chance to look at the websites yet. Some of the prices, I thought were a little excessive but they may have special upgrades.

Hi Gary--

I don't know about MI, but did grow up in WI and do spend a bit of time back there.  I know the construction costs there don't compare with those here in the High Sierra...  We have to engineer for 250-400 lbs psf snowload (elevation dependent), gale force winds and seismic considerations....  Our $psf costs are crazy!  The engineering alone can set you back more than houses cost in some areas of the country!

My husband and I are considering an ICF home for many reasons:

termite resistent
fire resistent
wind resistent
pest resistent

I really enjoyed your article! Any leads on good ICF homebuilders in East Tennessee area? 

First off, I am a huge fan of the "The General". What Mike says about green building programs is true. There is not a bad one, but it does depend on the people involved.

I love to see this colaborative effort coming together! I love seeing the outlines and the input from everyone. I have seen success by creating an outline like this a while ago. Let me know how I can help.

As far as finding an ICF builder in East Tennessee, I might be interested if the scenery is nice :)

Taryn,  You can probably call a local manufacturer and find one...however, Adam does a great job.  :)

Adam,  I like Michael's last sentence.  "If the program doesn't meet the expectations of the consumer it isn't the right program"  It really does come down to the consumer and what shade of green they are..and what they can afford for their area. 

By the way,  I went to a GBC meeting last night with the school district of the First LEED Public School in Texas.  Their state test scores exceeded 90% passing rate the first year in the school and their disciplinary action has dropped significantly.  COST TO BUILD the 91,500 sq ft LEED Building...  $108 per sq ft.  The same price as other schools built same year and not LEED.  They ended up with 27 points and received their plaque not too long ago.  It was quite fascinating.

We are building our first ICF home in a new planned community on Table Rock Lake in Missouri and would appreciate any info about latest developments for our prospective buyers and builders.

Hi Steve--

What kind of info are you looking for?  I have built with ICF here in CA and know a number of other ICF owners locally.  I have met a number of ICF manufacturers/builders through our local green building association and a variety of green "shows".  I have seen products that I think may be even more interesting than the one that I built with.

Hi Jeff:

I would like to be involved.  What do you see as the difference between:

A. Site Planning & Land Development
B. Lot Design, Preparation and Development,

Is "A"  like the big picture and "B" more on specifics?

Tamara, that is what I'm talking about, the info you found that may even be more interesting than the one you built with, please hook me up with that kind of info, thanks.

Hi Steve--

In my construction, I used Polysteel and had to use Nudura for a couple of the walls as Polysteel didn't have the size available at that time--called for by the engineer for our snowloads, earthquake and wind factors...  I think this house could float down the creek that it is built along or tumble into the center of the earth and come thru un-scathed with it's engineering... Hopefully, you don't have similar issues in Missouri!

The Polysteel is a great product, but was definitely more difficult to work with than the Nudura. We challenged the product by building 2 story with a 17' rake wall.  The foam blocks were really susceptible to winds, we needed to do  a lot of bracing before the pours. 

 Another member of our green building group used a product called Durisol that has been around for many years.  It is a concrete and wood fiber blend.  The blocks are pretty heavy to move around, but much less susceptible to the wind.  I don't really like the way the insulation is incorporated, but he really stands behind the efficiency of the product.

 At West Coast Green, I met another manufacturer with concrete and recycled foam product.  Probably as heavy as the Durisol, but having the insulation incorporated into the whole block...  Called Perform Wall.  My contact there is Wade Vernon.  Company # is 915-587-8885.  Based in Texas

There was also a product that had a metal stud (said that could be engineered to accomodate whatever building code) with an expanded polystyrene for insulation.  www.kama-eebs.com  My contact Kenneth Miller, based in Las Vegas.

There are also cool products for making windows frames, tools for melting the styrofoam, metal "patches" so you have something to mount curtain rods on, etc. 

Hope that helps!

Thanks Tamara, you are a giver, and I will make sure I send my cousin to you when he is ready to sell, a lawyer in Tahoe.

Thanks Steve--is he green?  ;-)

Hi All,

Andrew has a great question posted to one of his blogs by a consumer...anyone have an answer?  I'm sure that anyone living along the Gulf Coast may run across this question in the future....

I want to use a shipping container for a storage building in my back yard. The city wants to know how I can make it hurricane proof (tied down, bolted down, etc.) ... I've heard that shipping containers can withstand high winds without any tie down of any sort but I can't find any engineering data that provides proof.

Does anyone have any experience with this aspect of shipping containers?

 

01/07/2008 06:25 AM

by Brian

I would love to be of help.

Feel free to contact me anytime.

I author www.GreenMortgageGroup.com

I'm surprised no one has weighed in on this question yet...

Does anyone know if you can recycle old vinyl flooring?  I hate to send all of this to the dump.

Tamara, not yet:)

Jeff, Count me in for we are just finishing the first of several ICF "Green Homes" by Table Rock Lake in Missouri and can provide the entire list you have compiled so far of services needed.  Keep up the good work, this is the future!

Hi Steve--Let me know when he is!  Or maybe introduce us and I can begin the conversion process!

Stephanie--Here is a web resource that has access to multiple vinyl recyclers across the country http://www.vinylinfo.org/Recycling/VinylRecyclingDirectory.aspx

Good luck finding someone in your area! 

Great blog.  I keep looking at different options to build a small 600sqft cabin efficiently. I have considered ICF, but there aren't many reliable contractors who are skilled in it.

How difficult is it for a carpenter who hasn't used ICF to use it?

Thanks much!

Cree 

Great blog.  I keep looking at different options to build a small 600sqft cabin efficiently. I have considered ICF, but there aren't many reliable contractors who are skilled in it.

How difficult is it for a carpenter who hasn't used ICF to use it?

Thanks much!

Cree 

Hi Cree, 

Have you spoken with ICF Manufacturers in your area?  They would probably know someone near you that is qualified.  If you let us know what area you are in I would bet that one of us could get you in the right direction.

Steph

TO all on this blog, we are the largest installer of ICF in the US.  We are based out of Ft Myers Florida, and work the entire United States, as well as some foreign countries.  We can be contacted at greg@iconstructure.com or at 866-639-1672, for any questions or projects.

Greg, thanks for your input here.  I'll be sure to check out your site to see if you do work in PA. 

It's been a while I see since someone left a comment-hopefully, your still out there!  Any, I'm a RE Investment Advisor here in SoCa.  I'm currently working on a highest and best use property zoned for three units.  We will be installing/building 3 new panalized modular homes-All Green plus we will be installing a photovoltic solar array so all three units will be totally energy efficient. It's a first for the city.  I hope to get them on board with $$-in return for a dedication and publicity.  Another city close by built 4 energy efficient stick built homes. No solar however.   Adding solar will of course increase the cost but some of that can be offset with Tax Credits.  The manufacturer, contractors and lenders are all certified green builders.  Hopefully, the city will allow me and my team to do a few more once they see this finished.  Wish me luck!

Mathews Associates LLC/ Investment Realty Services

Yes I would be interested if there are sone Michigan contacts. I will check my resources and see if I can offer sone Michigan Links...

Jeff~

 

I am wondering if it is time to UPDATE this with even More valuable information for 2009? I look forward to that...

I think you're right, JaneAnne.  Time for a new release in January?

I was just looking at some of my older posts - can you believe the number of comments on this post?  I wonder what the record is for AR anyways?

I think I did a good job updating the conversation with:

http://activerain.com/blogsview/898198/The-New-American-Home-Made-Right

What do you think?  I DARE you to read through all 340 comments.